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On-grid domestic battery storage

edited 30 November -1 at 1:00AM in Green & Ethical MoneySaving
1.8K replies 199.4K views
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  • djmattcdjmattc Forumite
    14 posts
    Not sure if this has been mentioned yet. However, I spoke to the company who installed my solar panels last night due to asking them about battery installations. They have only been installed for a couple of weeks.
    They mentioned a few systems but one in particular that is due to be announced and in production by the end of the year - Duracell. The details of the naming were vague but he did mention some features like being connected via the internet to other users of the same system so that it is more intelligent and higher capacity density.
    I can't seem to find any mention of this upcoming system on the internet anywhere but if it happens it does sound like it will be expensive!
    3.5kWp 12-panel PV system, south facing.
  • orreryorrery Forumite
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    djmattc wrote: »
    ... features like being connected via the internet to other users of the same system so that it is more intelligent and higher capacity density.


    I suspect that description will apply to the vast majority of all systems for sale over the next few years.
    4kWp, Panels: 16 Hyundai HIS250MG, Inverter: SMA Sunny Boy 4000TL, SolarImmersion
    Location: Bedford, Roof: South East facing, 20 degree pitch
    Nissan Leaf, TADO Central Heating control
  • Martyn1981Martyn1981 Forumite
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    djmattc wrote: »
    Not sure if this has been mentioned yet. However, I spoke to the company who installed my solar panels last night due to asking them about battery installations. They have only been installed for a couple of weeks.
    They mentioned a few systems but one in particular that is due to be announced and in production by the end of the year - Duracell. The details of the naming were vague but he did mention some features like being connected via the internet to other users of the same system so that it is more intelligent and higher capacity density.
    I can't seem to find any mention of this upcoming system on the internet anywhere but if it happens it does sound like it will be expensive!

    It might be true as another poster has mentioned Duracell in their new thread on PV today.

    the only thing I can find is a 2 year old article with an interesting date:

    Duracell announce ‘Powerwall Killer’ home battery.
    Mart. Cardiff. 5.58 kWp PV systems (3.58 ESE & 2.0 WNW)

    For general PV advice please see the PV FAQ thread on the Green & Ethical Board.
  • legoman62legoman62 Forumite
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    Martyn1981 wrote: »
    It might be true as another poster has mentioned Duracell in their new thread on PV today.

    the only thing I can find is a 2 year old article with an interesting date:

    Duracell announce ‘Powerwall Killer’ home battery.

    And it was announced on April 1st:grin::rotfl:
    16 Sanyo Hit 250s.4kWp SMA 3.8kWp inverter. SW roof. 28° pitch.
    Minimal shade. Nov 2011 install. Hybrid car. N.E Lincs Coast.
  • ASavvyBuyerASavvyBuyer Forumite
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    The Home Switch system looks interesting:
    Home Switch
    AC Battery Storage Systems

    Looking at the info on the 2.4kW model (for about £1.5k) I reckon we could save about £100/year on reduced leccy import (including the standing charge, as they tend to break even at around 1,000kWh/year, with the much higher unit rate for no standing charge tariffs).

    We would still need to import during the winter months, as our generation in low then, so not likely to reduce it even further, even with a bigger model.

    That works out as taking about 15 years to break even (assuming inflation & lost interest cancel each other out).

    So a 5 year warranty, and needing to pay for returning it to China if it fails in that time, does not seem to make it economically viable for us.

    Think it needs a longer warranty supported from the UK, or a much lower price to start making economic sense, for us.
    Noticed that this company has launched a new website. https://www.thinkrenewables.co.uk/sofar-ac-battery-storage
    The prices look to be the same, so still might not be economical, unless using economy 7 at night (or Octopus Agile tariff) to charge it when rates are cheaper, if there is not enough supplus during the day.
    Has anyone on here installed one of these sofar systems?
    4kWp, W roof, 30° pitch, Solar Edge Inverter + Optimisers. South Wales Valleys, Installed Aug 2015. Octopus Agile Electric Tariff.
    Solic 200 Diverter, Toshiba Ultra High Efficiency Air Conditioner/Heat Pump, Kia Soul & Renault Zoe EV's.
  • ZarchZarch Forumite
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    Noticed that this company has launched a new website. https://www.thinkrenewables.co.uk/sofar-ac-battery-storage
    The prices look to be the same, so still might not be economical, unless using economy 7 at night (or Octopus Agile tariff) to charge it when rates are cheaper, if there is not enough supplus during the day.
    Has anyone on here installed one of these sofar systems?

    So if 4.8kWh is £2100 including inverter. Assume Inverter is worth £750? That means the storage is down to £1350 for 4.8kWh?

    So say 3.8kWh usable from the 4.8kWh battery.

    3.8 x 365 = 1387kWh per year x 13.76p per unit (my current tariff) = £190 total saved per year

    So £1350 (battery cost) / £190 (saved per year) = 7.1 years to pay back?

    Obviously, if you move to something like Octopus Agile tariff and you're paying 9p per unit, its more like down to £124 per year saved and up to 10 years payback.

    When do we consider the tipping point to be?

    One would assume that adding a battery at install is more cost effective on initial install than retro-fitting? The VAT is cheaper on install?

    Thanks
    17 x 300W panels (5.1kWh) on a 3.68kWh SolarEdge system in Sunny Sheffield.
    4.8kWh Pylontech battery storage system with Lux AC controller
    Creator of the Energy Stats UK website and @energystatsuk Twitter Feed
  • orreryorrery Forumite
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    Noticed that this company has launched a new website. https://www.thinkrenewables.co.uk/sofar-ac-battery-storage...


    Looks like the same kit as the Powerbanx being sold by *Fuel Included
    http://fuelincluded.com/
    (their site has just gone down ...?)


    Looks identical with different branding on the batteries.


    * They are posting a lot on the electric car forums and have a good blog, and seem fairly sensible people, located MK area.
    4kWp, Panels: 16 Hyundai HIS250MG, Inverter: SMA Sunny Boy 4000TL, SolarImmersion
    Location: Bedford, Roof: South East facing, 20 degree pitch
    Nissan Leaf, TADO Central Heating control
  • ZarchZarch Forumite
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    http://info.fuelincluded.com/battery-components

    So they've got these 2.4kWh Pylontech USB2000 Plus battery listed for £760+vat. so £316 per kWh..... we anywhere near tipping point yet? :)

    2.4kWh - £760
    4.8kWh - £1520
    7.2kWh - £2280
    9.6kWh - £3040

    As the batteries are single units you don't get a sliding scale of value as you ramp up the capacity. Just multiply the price. Although maybe some multi buy discount if you asked?

    And they've got the inverter listed separately at £619+vat.

    Looks like its much more cost effective to buy from their other site and get a 'package' with a bundled if its an initial install?

    https://www.thinkrenewables.co.uk/sofar-ac-battery-storage

    £1299 total with 1 x 2.4kWh (2.4) and inverter
    £1950 total with 2 x 2.4kWh (4.8) and inverter
    £2550 total with 3 x 2.4kWh (7.2) and interver
    £3150 total with 4 x 2.4kWh (9.6) and inverter

    You almost get the inverter free with the 9.6kWh bundle?

    Very interesting...... need to do more sums!! :D
    17 x 300W panels (5.1kWh) on a 3.68kWh SolarEdge system in Sunny Sheffield.
    4.8kWh Pylontech battery storage system with Lux AC controller
    Creator of the Energy Stats UK website and @energystatsuk Twitter Feed
  • ASavvyBuyerASavvyBuyer Forumite
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    Zarch wrote: »
    http://info.fuelincluded.com/battery-components

    So they've got these 2.4kWh Pylontech USB2000 Plus battery listed for £760+vat. so £316 per kWh..... we anywhere near tipping point yet? :)

    2.4kWh - £760
    4.8kWh - £1520
    7.2kWh - £2280
    9.6kWh - £3040

    As the batteries are single units you don't get a sliding scale of value as you ramp up the capacity. Just multiply the price. Although maybe some multi buy discount if you asked?

    And they've got the inverter listed separately at £619+vat.

    Looks like its much more cost effective to buy from their other site and get a 'package' with a bundled if its an initial install?

    https://www.thinkrenewables.co.uk/sofar-ac-battery-storage

    £1299 total with 1 x 2.4kWh (2.4) and inverter
    £1950 total with 2 x 2.4kWh (4.8) and inverter
    £2550 total with 3 x 2.4kWh (7.2) and interver
    £3150 total with 4 x 2.4kWh (9.6) and inverter

    You almost get the inverter free with the 9.6kWh bundle?

    Very interesting...... need to do more sums!! :D

    Don't forget to add 20% VAT to those prices.

    I need to work out all the figures, but I think by using the Octopus Agile tariff overnight and daytime very low rates to charge a battery up during the winter months and excess generation in the summer, we could avoid most of our import at the normal or high rates.
    Octopus now have a spreadsheet to download that shows what the half hourly rates have been for the last year.

    Still might take a few years to break even, but could be an interesting experiment.
    4kWp, W roof, 30° pitch, Solar Edge Inverter + Optimisers. South Wales Valleys, Installed Aug 2015. Octopus Agile Electric Tariff.
    Solic 200 Diverter, Toshiba Ultra High Efficiency Air Conditioner/Heat Pump, Kia Soul & Renault Zoe EV's.
  • Martyn1981Martyn1981 Forumite
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    This is small scale demand side storage, but not domestic (I think), but worth posting as it should promote the rollout of storage technology in London.

    On-site renewables and battery storage boosted by London £500 million energy efficiency fund
    Mart. Cardiff. 5.58 kWp PV systems (3.58 ESE & 2.0 WNW)

    For general PV advice please see the PV FAQ thread on the Green & Ethical Board.
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