On-grid domestic battery storage

zeupater

JKenH wrote: »

One would ask the question why?

Hi

Plenty of possibilities for root reasoning there and I doubt that many people wouldn't have at least a couple of ideas as to what they may be, therefore we can only identify the commonality present in posts ... deliberate distraction & deflection of reasonable discussion related to renewable energy on whatever thread seems to be popular to interested members at the time utilising well rehearsed & oft-employed argument based on just enough foundational 'truth' to provide a basic level of credibility to cause some to consider the entire position to be reasonable and therefore create division ....

Then again, there's the use of multiple profiles to encourage & amplify the continuation of argument, both against subject & individuals ... it's strange what some do for fun, ideology or to deliver to some form of agenda for self interest or that of others ...

That's what the question should be based on, when credibility is lost, why the need to continually return under a different guise?

HTH
Z

Solarchaser

guess if you don't already have a hot water tank or need a new one, that would make it a better buy.
I take it you can grid charge it to make use of cheaper TOU rates ?

Yeah, I dont have a tank, all my water connections are downstairs and a water tank would need to go into the loft, and be a bit of hassle with opening up walls for pipe routing.
And yeah it can be set to "charge" on a timer.

There would seem to be moves afoot to stop us using gas as a heater, so it makes sense to start to switch to low rate leccy when possible imo, especially when we have an abundance of cheap wind powered overnight leccy, which is only going to increase in time.

Solarchaser

In response to Ken, I have to say, Irony abounds!!!

Have a look at your own targeted behaviour towards Martyn before asking "what's the problem with the ga troll"

I know, saying that must make me part of his clan / group / posse or whatever other dismissive title you can apply to avoid dealing with the facts.

Ga is a troll, why does he do it, no idea, but anyone who has been on the internet forums for more than 6 months has experienced trolls, he is by no means unique.

Why you defend him, and very very rarely raise even the most cursory of questions to him, I have no idea, again thats why I find your comment ironic.

If you doubt he is a troll, have a look through the various electric vehicles threads.
See how many times he uses the egolf while comparing against a base model fiesta, and how many times, after being pulled up on his bogus pricing, does he simply spaff it out again.
It's not a discussion if after being proved wrong, he just says the same things again, that's a wind up.... cos he is a troll.

Almillar is doing a good job of holding him to account (as is abrass)after most people dont even bother engaging with him, and scroll by.

You will note your own battle cry to Martyn several months ago was to put him on ignore, which he appears to have done, but still the troll quotes him while posting 5 times in a row.

And you can guarantee that at least 4 of those 5 posts will have one of the bingo callers favourites as listed by Hexane above.

Interconnectors, district heating, nukes, yadda yadda yawn

You clearly see all of this, so why dont you call HIM out instead of your weird obsession with Martyn?

Martyn1981

JKenH wrote: »

I understand what you are saying but who are the ‘we’ - are we talking about the Mart collective who have a unified view of how things should be? Do you identify with a group of other people on the forum. Do you challenge the posts of members of your group?

Ken ..... I'm sorry.

I support RE, BEV's, battery/storage development, a cleaner planet, and even that very impressive young lady Greta Thunberg.

I'm simply incapable of ignoring facts, science and logic. Yes that's a bit obsessive, and I've made many jokes about myself and being CDO (OCD but placed in alphabetic order for neatness). I can't take a faith based, ideological stance against G&E issues, nor the need to displace FF consumption asap, I simply can't.

So when people like GA, or yourself, post misinformation about AGW et all, I'm going to pushback, in fact I think that's my moral duty, as silly as that might sound, but it's a small contribution that I'm able to make.

But here's the good news, I don't go onto any AGW denial sites or boards and argue with 'them', after all, what would be the point, and despite believing that such folk are harming the planet and everyone's future by supporting and promoting false information, I also believe it would be very rude of me to enter 'their house' and spoil their fun and enjoyment. So there is probably an almost infinite number of sites/threads where you can enjoy a 'Mart free zone'.

So, I'm sorry I upset you, and I'm sorry that others may disagree with you too, but your obsession with me, and anyone who agrees with me (or I agree with them) on any issue, is not doing you any good.

Might I suggest, yet again, that you place me on ignore, as that would make life better for you, and save you all the time and effort you waste trying to squabble and start more and more distraction/disruption arguments on the G&E board.

Many thanks in anticipation of your clicking that ignore function. All the best.

JKenH

Ah, yes, the infamous campaign against Mart. I had the temerity to challenge his endless campaigning against oil companies while driving an ICE and heating his home with gas. Meanwhile I was thanking him for his other posts. Remember how I ended my ‘campaign’- I offered to stay off his news thread and start a new Mart free thread. Real troll like behaviour from me there. (And then Mart went out and bought himself a Leaf although he does keep quiet about that.)

As for trolls, remember the spoof GreatAche account last summer. I wonder who was behind that?

You criticise me for not challenging GA - the problem is I do, but I am not a bully so don’t pile in when the collective is already on his case. Actually I do respect almillar as he will argue with GA at length without the cheap jibes that characterise members of the collective.

Could I ask - have you challenged Mart on anything recently? I seem to recall you are a bit of a petrolhead so wouldn’t have thought your views were perfectly aligned on the subject of Big Oil.

As for the facts about ICE power trains (which presumably is your point as this is what all the recent acrimony has been about). Initially I thought GA must be wrong with his figures of £2/2.5k for an ICE power train but he had made me curious (as like you I am interested in cars) and I found the paper which I linked to the thread. I did have a little experience of pricing OEM crate engines so it did surprise me that the paper supported the argument he was making. (OEM mark up is very high and we all think retail prices). Now that argument might not apply to all comparisons of all ICEVs and BEVs but it did demonstrate there was substance in the argument GA was making.

So is he a troll? No. Does he repeat the same argument over and over? Yes? Does that irritate me? A little. Does it make some people think he is a troll? Probably. Do some people think I am a troll? Probably. Do I think there are other trolls on here? Yes. do I go around shouting it? No.

We all have opinions and at times we all annoy other contributors. Just as my posts annoy you, others will annoy me. So what do we do? Call each other names (to what end) or try and get on?

Some people are in a mindset that they are always right and always want the last word. That’s fine if you want a brawl but one can always walk away. I am on this forum not because I want to demonstrate how much I know (which in the grand scheme of things is very little) but because I want to learn as well. Some people have the attitude they have nothing to learn, they know all the answers already.

I have been on this forum for 18 months. While I was interested in the environment I was not particularly clued up on AGW or RE. My attitude to AGW has changed as a result of contact with others and I have installed ASHPs which I didn’t know about before I came on here. So thanks to Mart, Coastalwatch and Z.

My attitude on BEVs has completely changed such that I have just bought my second. The experience of learning about BEVs was the opposite of ASHPs however. I soon learnt on here that BEVs didn’t have the range of ICE’s and was dead against them. I was fed up of seeing Mart’s fanboy videos about Teslas and conspiracy theories that the world was out to get Tesla that I started trying to look for more objective views. I got interested in V2H and V2G and realised that BEVs fit well into an integrated household energy approach. I worked out if I kept my Golf as a long range car a BEV would be perfect for a local run around. The Golf has now gone.

The point I am making is something I first realised when I was about 50 and in quite a senior position. It is only as you get older you realise (and can admit) just how little you do know. When I was in my 30s I had all the answers. The arrogance of youth I call it. (Perhaps this is why old people don’t appreciate Greta Thunberg.)

In my view it is better to ask the questions than assume you know the answers. Keep an open mind. Those so arrogant as to think they know it all are incapable of learning. As I said before, don’t be too judgmental on GA. There may be some rubbish to wade through but there is the odd nugget in there. Or you can just ignore it like I do all the Green and Solar news.

JKenH

Martyn1981 wrote: »

Ken ..... I'm sorry.

I support RE, BEV's, battery/storage development, a cleaner planet, and even that very impressive young lady Greta Thunberg

I’m with you on all but the GT thing.

Martyn1981 wrote: »

I'm simply incapable of ignoring facts, science and logic.

But you did ignore the numbers on the ICE power train argument and made a childish response.

Martyn1981 wrote: »

So when people like GA, or yourself, post misinformation about AGW et all, I'm going to pushback, in fact I think that's my moral duty, as silly as that might sound, but it's a small contribution that I'm able to make.

I think you switching to an EV has done more to save the planet than pushing back against me and GA. Sometimes telling people they are wrong can do more harm than good. Let them make their own minds up.

Martyn1981 wrote: »

Might I suggest, yet again, that you place me on ignore, as that would make life better for you, and save you all the time and effort you waste trying to squabble and start more and more distraction/disruption arguments on the G&E board.

Many thanks in anticipation of your clicking that ignore function. All the best.

No need to put you on ignore Mart. I just don’t read the Green and Solar News threads anymore unless I need to get to sleep.

If “All the best” is genuine then thank you.

chamelion

Folks, back on topic now?!

Solarchaser

So to summarise you think the name calling is poor.... while still name calling... ok.

Yes, you are correct, I'm a petrolhead and so definitely not as far down the line on re and about oil being bad as Martyn is, but as for challenging him..... show me what he has said that's false and I'll challenge him on it.

Martyn represents some uncomfortable truths for me, as I really do enjoy the sound of a gas guzzler on the limits, but realising we need to move away from oil doesnt mean I need to stop driving my deisel car now, nor my petrol fun car now, and to suggest as much is what lessens the impact of what you state.

Wouldn't it be nice if we could all switch to all electric and no oil or gas overnight.... maybe, but that's not possible and if we did the grid would become much dirtier and likely fall over, achieving the opposite effect.

It makes far more sense to gradually switch as a country / continent / planet and that needs political will all of which Martyn has pointed out and you rail against....

shavy65

Solarchaser wrote: »

if we did the grid would become much dirtier and likely fall over, achieving the opposite effect

Hi, I`m typically an observer on these forums as I also find I learn a lot from them. Excuse my ignorance, but what do you mean by your above quote? TIA.

Solarchaser

Hi, what I mean is if the draw on the grid suddenly took all the heating requirements that we at the moment use gas for, then there would be a lot more demand placed on the grid.
To counter this, more gas and coal power stations would be fired up and so the grid mix of power would become much dirtier, whereas if you were to take Southern Scotland (where I live) right now it's only 4% gas, in comparison east Midlands is 78% gas.

In addition the grid as it stands would be highly unlikely, even with all the dirty power stations running at full strength, to meet the demand, which means it would fall over... ie black outs and brown outs.

The best way (in my opinion) to combat this is to keep bringing on sokar and wind farms while moving heating requirements gradually to electric.

I hope that makes sense.