Speeding fine for imaginary speed?

Franz_Ferdinand

phoenix_w wrote: »

The problem, as I see it, is that the police are over dependent on speed cameras to do all of their traffic work. Where I live there are rarely any traffic cops on the beat - the roads are completely lawless. You can be a complete muppet behind the wheel and drive as fast as you like almost anywhere. So long as you remember to slow down for the odd speed camera or know the same tired and lazy places the vans work, you're laughing.

We see traffic coppers two times a year: Once when the announce on twitter they're going to patrol the next day, and again when they announce on twitter that they're going to do a tax & insurance crackdown. The pose for their picture in the local paper next to the one vehicle they managed to catch and then spend the rest of the year playing[STRIKE] top trumps[/STRIKE] niggle.

You're talking about the West Mids, aren't you?

Jon_01

Franz_Ferdinand wrote: »

So are you saying that they only have a 50 metre view from that location and there isn't one upto 1000 metres?

No there can't be. The sign blocks line of sight from where they hid the van. You only get sight of the van (and them of you) until you pass it. 50 meters tops.

I only knew it was there because I'd seen them setting up as I too my wife to work 20 minutes before. . .

Franz_Ferdinand

Jon_01 wrote: »

No there can't be. The sign blocks line of sight from where they hid the van. You only get sight of the van (and them of you) until you pass it. 50 meters tops.

I only knew it was there because I'd seen them setting up as I too my wife to work 20 minutes before. . .

Post up a street view link.

Car_54

facade wrote: »

I don't understand the semantics of the whole thing.

If you accept a fixed penalty as an alternative to prosecution (accepting is not an admission of guilt, but an acceptance that an offence has taken place) you haven't been prosecuted, but somehow you have been convicted, even though a court wasn't involved and you weren't prosecuted, and you are somehow a criminal....

You are a criminal whenever you commit the offence, whether or not you are caught and convicted!

A fixed penalty, according to the Act which introduced them, is a "punishment without conviction". It's difficult to argue that
acceptance of the punishment is anything other than an admission of guilt, given that the recipient has the option of challenging the prosecution in court.

Stoke

Car_54 wrote: »

You are a criminal whenever you commit the offence, whether or not you are caught and convicted!

A fixed penalty, according to the Act which introduced them, is a "punishment without conviction". It's difficult to argue that
acceptance of the punishment is anything other than an admission of guilt, given that the recipient has the option of challenging the prosecution in court.

Except if you go to court, you have to pay the incredibly high solicitor fees and court costs, seeing as we don't get legal aid, rather we pay for the CPS to prosecute.

Jon_01

Franz_Ferdinand wrote: »

Post up a street view link.

Ok, but there's a problem with that idea I've just found!

This is where they park their van
https://www.google.co.uk/maps/@51.5255404,-2.5760208,3a,75y,3.75h,60.66t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sA_Hh0nSHk-2dbr0bTnEi_A!2e0!7i13312!8i6656

You'll see a pull in.

If you do a 180 and look back up the road you'll see no sign! The street view is from June this year, but the sign was only put up in Aug/Sept but is about where the second lamp post is.

Car_54

Stoke wrote: »

Except if you go to court, you have to pay the incredibly high solicitor fees and court costs, seeing as we don't get legal aid, rather we pay for the CPS to prosecute.

But there are no costs if you're found not guilty, and employing a solicitor is optional.

Franz_Ferdinand

Jon_01 wrote: »

Ok, but there's a problem with that idea I've just found!

This is where they park their van


You'll see a pull in.

If you do a 180 and look back up the road you'll see no sign! The street view is from June this year, but the sign was only put up in Aug/Sept but is about where the second lamp post is.

So they park on that hardstsnding?

I bet there's a view down the inside of the sign and the got you coming round the corner.

facade

Franz_Ferdinand wrote: »

You admit it by accepting the ticket.

No you don't.

Accepting a fixed penalty is not an admission of guilt, the other example in my post was wrong though, you do have to admit guilt to accept a caution.

The penalty notice scheme provides a useful method for dealing with low level crime, for example, the sort of public disorder which occurs in city centres at night, which is troublesome and anti-social, without involving serious criminality. Payment of the penalty involves no admission of guilt on the part of the person to whom it is given, nor does it create a criminal record. These are important limitations.

(This case relates to a disorder offence, originally dealt with by means of a FPN.)

http://www.bailii.org/ew/cases/EWCA/Crim/2009/1424.html

Obviously, you could say that if someone has committed a crime, then they are by definition a criminal, and that they wouldn't accept a fixed penalty unless they knew they were guilty/had committed said crime, but in the OPs case, he may choose to accept the fixed penalty, even though he is sure that he has committed no crime, as it is the path of least resistance/cost.

Jon_01

Franz_Ferdinand wrote: »

So they park on that hardstsnding?

I bet there's a view down the inside of the sign and the got you coming round the corner.

Yes, that right. But between the offest they have on the hardstanding and slight curve to the right and the size of the sign they can't see past. And the sign nicely hid them. I agree that they should be there, there are some total morons that go down that straight so fast I think I've stopped sometimes!

I'm giving in on it. I've asked elsewhere and once they produce their 'evidence' the court will automatically side with them. I have no way of proving I was only doing 37 (and I was doing 37). So they get their £100 and there's nothing anyone can do to prove them wrong.

So much for the great British legal system, which it seems the police can manipulate to fund them!