MSE News: GB Energy goes bust, 160,000 customers affected

System

slpj wrote: »

A week or so ago, I mentioned that I'd never been informed by GB that they had increased prices, and that I'd never been been asked for a meter reading, and that I'd never been sent any emails or letters at all, since joining them at the end of July. I spoke with customer services at GB, and was told they had posted a letter to me, advising me of the tariff increase. I said it did not arrive, and so I wasn't prepared to accept the increase.

Someone else said they were in a similar position, but that because GB said they'd sent me a price increase notification by post, that I had no case against them, -- or words to that effect.

I complained to GB in writing, stating that they had not given me notice of a tariff increase, had not asked me for a meter reading to ensure that the new price would be applied at the correct reading, and had therefore denied me the opportunity to either switch to a cheaper tariff, or to switch supplier.

Today, I received an email reply from them. In their reply they state.---
"After investigating your account for you, we can see that a letter informing you of the price increase was sent to you via postal delivery on the 27th October, we can confirm that this letter was sent to the following address: " -- also -- "

---

we can confirm that as your account is currently set to 'postal delivery' only, a meter reading request email was not sent to you. --- "

Additionally, their reply said ---- " --- we have also attached a copy of this letter to this email for your viewing, please review this carefully. -- "

The attachment is titled. Your Direct Debit Review. It says, :---
We are writing to let you know that that we need to change the amount you pay each
month for your energy. This is because this amount is currently too much or too little based on
your forecast energy consumption.

I did not recieve this letter. But so what if I had? All suppliers vary the DD, dependant on your consumption. So whilst claiming on the phone and in an email reply, that they gave me notice of the tariff increase, they have in fact now admitted, that they did not inform me of a price increase. It clearly says a DD increase due to my changed energy consumption, which can only have been based on their own estimate of my useage, because they have not had any meter readings from me since I joined them. It makes no mention at all of a tariff increase. So when they told me on the phone, that a letter informing me of the tariff increase had been sent to me, they were not telling the truth.

No wonder they went belly up, they are(were) useless, and possibly dishonest to boot..

I am in the middle of switching to First Utility. I started the process on the 2nd December, -- after I cancelled the DD to GB.

At the old tariff, I was in credit to GB at the time they went belly up. But by the time I switch, about the 21st Dec, I may owe GB money. Can GB prevent me switching if I continue to dispute their right to charge me on the increased tariff, that they failed to give me notice about?

Yes. (Same rules for electricity): that said, it usually depends on how much is owed.

Domestic Customer transfer blocking

14.4 The licensee may ask or allow the Relevant Gas Shipper to prevent a Proposed Supplier Transfer in relation to a Domestic Customer at a Domestic Premises at which the licensee is the Relevant Gas Supplier in any of the following circumstances:

(a) subject to paragraphs 14.5 and 14.7, if at the time the request is made Outstanding Charges are due to the licensee from that Domestic Customer;

slpj

I'm dual fuel Hengus, so they could potentially block me on both counts then?

Can someone tell me where I can find the rules surrounding suppliers informing customers about tariff increases, as they would have applied to GB when they increased theirs? I'm pretty sure they are in breach of their own terms and conditions, but am I also right in saying, as I believe, that there are industry wide rules that customers must be given adequeate notice of a tariif increase?

uptdale

If you are paying monthly by Direct Debit, I would not expect the supplier to issue any bills (save for a final bill when you switch supplier)

All my suppliers (where I pay that way) issue statements.

It depends what you mean by "bill". I have had monthly documents from GB which GB calls bills (and I pay by DD) and also "statements". They have the features of both invoices (because they set out the detail of the charges debited to my account and show the VAT) and statements, because they set out the balance owing (debit or credit) before and after the charges. They are not demands for payment, because I pay by DD, but they are bills in any ordinary sense of the word.

System

slpj wrote: »

I'm dual fuel Hengus, so they could potentially block me on both counts then?

Can someone tell me where I can find the rules surrounding suppliers informing customers about tariff increases, as they would have applied to GB when they increased theirs? I'm pretty sure they are in breach of their own terms and conditions, but am I also right in saying, as I believe, that there are industry wide rules that customers must be given adequeate notice of a tariif increase?

Standard Licence Condition 23 applies (but I am not sure how you can prove that a notice was never sent. It doesn't have to be signed for. Note: it only practically applies to customers on a standard variable tariff when there is an increase in charges)

23.4 Subject to paragraphs 23.11 and 23.12, the Notice referred to in paragraph 23.3:
(a) must be given at least 30 days in advance of the date on which the increase in the Charges for the Supply of Gas or Disadvantageous Unilateral Variation has effect;

(b) without prejudice to an Electricity SLC 23 Notice, must not be provided in conjunction with any other information, including (but not limited to) a Bill, statement of account, Annual Statement or marketing material;

(c) without prejudice to the SLC 23 Exempt Information, and subject to paragraph 23.4A, must only include the information mentioned in sub- paragraphs 23.4(d) to 23.4(y);

(d) must contain a title which clearly highlights that the Notice relates to an increase in Charges for the Supply of Gas and/or Disadvantageous Unilateral Variation;

Mike110

Hi guys


Just been on the phone to GB energy as I wanted to switch. So energy said they had an objection as my account with GB was 1900 in debit even though there is an active DD on the account and the funds to pay. For some reason last Nov they stopped taking the DD payment and I have tried and tried to contact them with no joy.


Now I am told the debt has been passed to the COOP under the terms of the switch by OFGEM.


Any views

footyguy

Mike110 wrote: »

Hi guys


Just been on the phone to GB energy as I wanted to switch. So energy said they had an objection as my account with GB was 1900 in debit even though there is an active DD on the account and the funds to pay. For some reason last Nov they stopped taking the DD payment and I have tried and tried to contact them with no joy.


Now I am told the debt has been passed to the COOP under the terms of the switch by OFGEM.


Any views

A debt is not a debt until at least 28 days after it has formally been demanded. That usually means billed (with a request for payment)

You don't normally get any bill when paying monthly by direct debit, as you are paying wvwery month. Instead they send you statement periodically.

slpj

Hi Hengus,

Well as far as the tariff I am on with GB, it is indeed a variable tariff. Premium energy Saver they called it, and as far as I know, it was their only variable tariff. I originally wanted to join them with one of their fixed 12 month tariffs, but the salesperson persuaded me to take the variable because it was cheaper at the time. So I did.

As regards ---" (d) must contain a title which clearly highlights that the Notice relates to an increase in Charges for the Supply of Gas and/or Disadvantageous Unilateral Variation; --- "

The only letter they claim to have sent me, is entitled "Your Direct Debit Review." . Here's the full text ---. They sent it to me in an email reply to my complaint.

Your Direct Debit Review Date: 27 Oct 2016
Dear Mr S---
We are writing to let you know that that we need to change the amount you pay each
month for your energy. This is because this amount is currently too much or too little based on
your forecast energy consumption.
Your monthly payment will be changing from £45.00 to £53.00.
Your first monthly payment of this amount will be taken 08 Dec 2016.
If you have any questions about this change to your account, please do not hesitate to
contact us.
Yours sincerely,
Phil Darwick
Operations Director

That's it. That is the ONLY communication GB energy claim to have sent to me, --- and I didn't receive it -- , since joining them at the end of July. It isn't a notice of increase in tariff, and it is dated on the 27th October, which is 14 days after their increase of tariff on the 13 October.

I've written back to GBe about this, but have heard nothing back.

I've read GB's terms and conditions, at the time they were still trading, and it says a customer has to give them 28 days notice if they are going to switch to another supplier. Having heard on the BBC that GB was bust, I decided to switch supplier to first utilility, on the 2nd november, when I saw how expensive the COOP tariffs were. As I haven't given GB(Coop) 28 days notice, can they prevent me switching on those grounds?

System

[QUOTE=slpj;71773098
I've read GB's terms and conditions, at the time they were still trading, and it says a customer has to give them 28 days notice if they are going to switch to another supplier. Having heard on the BBC that GB was bust, I decided to switch supplier to first utilility, on the 2nd november, when I saw how expensive the COOP tariffs were. As I haven't given GB(Coop) 28 days notice, can they prevent me switching on those grounds?
[/COLOR][/COLOR][/FONT][/SIZE][/SIZE][/QUOTE]

You need to read the last sentence:

12. Ending the Contract

12.1 You may end this contract by giving us at least 28 days' notice provided;
12.1.1 Either another supplier has started to supply Energy to the premises, or the supply has been disconnected, and
12.1.2 All sums due by you to us have been paid.
12.2 We may end this contract if;
12.2.1 You are in material breach of the contract,
12.2.2 You did not pay us what you owe us when it was due,
12.2.3 We no longer have the relevant licences to supply your Energy
12.2.4 At any time by giving you 28 days' notice.
12.3 This contract will terminate immediately if;
12.3.1 Ofgem gives a "Last Resort Supply Direction" to another supplier in respect of the gas and/or electricity in relation to the premises.

You therefore have no contract with GBEnergy: your contract is with Coop Energy. I assume that as part of the Supplier of Last Resort process they will have been passed details of your account. The Coop cannot stop you from initiating a switch; however, they may block it if there is a dispute on file about the amount owed (they may not). I suspect that the Coop isn't in a position to determine whether GBEnergy sent you a variation of tariff notice, and I doubt that they will care. They will just look to you to pay the amount owed. The question you have to address, imho, is this: 'how can I prove that I didn't receive a tariff variation notice from GBEnergy'?

There are a variety of reasons why an e-mail or letter may not be received: none of which are the fault of the sender.

slpj

Hi thanks very much for that Hengus. Very helpful.


GBe(Coop) aren't claiming that they sent me anything other than the notice to increase my DD each month. I didn't know this when I first complained by telephone, because I couldn't see the letter they referred to.

However, their reply to my written complaint to them, is as follows :---

"After investigating your account for you, we can see that a letter informing you of the price increase was sent to you via postal delivery on the 27th October, we can confirm that this letter was sent to the following address: Blanked " -- " We understand that the recent price increase has caused frustration and we sincerely apologise if you have not seen a copy of the letter sent to you via postal delivery. We can confirm that we have also attached a copy of this letter to this email for your viewing, please review this carefully. "


They are only talking about one letter, and kindly sent me a copy in email. And it turns out to be a DD increase notice, NOT a tariff price increase.

So it seems to me I don't have to prove they didn't send me a price increase notice, they've already confirmed it, and also already confirmed that NOTHING was sent to me in email, because my account was set to postal communications only.
" ---we can confirm that as your account is currently set to 'postal delivery' only,

---

" " ---- If this setting on your account is in error, we sincerely apologise for this. "

If they now start talking about another letter, that they said they sent, also by post, -- or email for that matter, --- they will have to explain why. They should also have to explain why, it was only their letters that I haven't received. I suppose I'll end up in court .

System

slpj wrote: »

Hi thanks very much for that Hengus. Very helpful.


GBe(Coop) aren't claiming that they sent me anything other than the notice to increase my DD each month. I didn't know this when I first complained by telephone, because I couldn't see the letter they referred to.

However, their reply to my written complaint to them, is as follows :---

"After investigating your account for you, we can see that a letter informing you of the price increase was sent to you via postal delivery on the 27th October, we can confirm that this letter was sent to the following address: Blanked " -- " We understand that the recent price increase has caused frustration and we sincerely apologise if you have not seen a copy of the letter sent to you via postal delivery. We can confirm that we have also attached a copy of this letter to this email for your viewing, please review this carefully. "


They are only talking about one letter, and kindly sent me a copy in email. And it turns out to be a DD increase notice, NOT a tariff price increase.

So it seems to me I don't have to prove they didn't send me a price increase notice, they've already confirmed it, and also already confirmed that NOTHING was sent to me in email, because my account was set to postal communications only.
" ---we can confirm that as your account is currently set to 'postal delivery' only,

---

" " ---- If this setting on your account is in error, we sincerely apologise for this. "

If they now start talking about another letter, that they said they sent, also by post, -- or email for that matter, --- they will have to explain why. They should also have to explain why, it was only their letters that I haven't received. I suppose I'll end up in court .

I wish you luck taking a non-existent company to Court. I am no lawyer but I fail to see how the Coop can be held responsible for the failings of a liquidated company. How much money are we actually talking about here? Occasionally, it is better to take a breath, pay up and move on. That, of course, is a decision for you.