OMG who do i believe

penny_pincher_7

:eek: we have a imported toyota celica m reg which we bought from a guy who works for vosa 2 months ago excellent condition as you could imagine but monday it just stopped working it is a automatic so we had to call the aa to be rescued :T :T and he told us it was the cam/timing belt,slipped or jumped so we arranged for it to be took into a garage today, garage man just rang to say NOT GOOD NEWS the belt had come off and damaged the valves then he quoted 800.00 :eek: :eek: i told him where we had bought the car from and i was going to ring original owner so he said he would take a closer look at it in the morning. i then rang original owner who told me NOWAY has this happened as it has a damage proof engine he is going to ring me back as he was working thenthe garage man rang me back and said it might not be that bad and he would have to take the ???? head off to check 150.00 he also said its not a damage proof engine and the belt had jumped 5 teeth and that 1 valve had no pressure and the others onlyhas 30llbs i dont know what the hell either is on about but please tell me who i should believe i feel like screaming and yes i am a woman who knows as much about football as i do cars plz plz help TIA diane i`m in manchester ashton-under-lyne PM me if you can help me out xxxx

rainbowangel

Well I don't know much about cars I have just spoken to a very knowledgeable friend of mine (please excuse any spelling mistakes but I'm very tired and off to bed soon!!)

Yes- The engine is damage proof BUT not to the extent that you don't need to change a cam belt or add oil. They are not completely damage proof... no car is.

The garage is quoting a fair price of £800 if that includes everything, however you need to say to them before you pay this...
Don't take the cylinder head off untill you have put on a new belt, timed it all up in to the new position and given it a compression test.

This will cost approx £200 BUT they can not charge extra for this because they need to all of this before they do the £800 work. If this doesn't work and they need to go ahead and do the £800 work it should only cost an additional £600 approx the £200 shouldn't be in addition to this.

Get BOTH the quotes in writing from them. Make sure they don't charge you an additional amount to have the checks done.

Good luck I know there are lots of untrustworthy mechanics out there but there are some good ones. I hope you have a good one.

Good luck

:O)

P.s how do I start a new thread I wanted to ask about a laptop for £300.00?

harveybobbles

Sounds to me like you're up a certain creek with no paddle, to be honest chuck!

If the belt has slipped that far then it could have damaged the valves to a certain degree.

penny_pincher_7

hi and thankyou rainbowangel to start a new thread you get yourself into the right forum then you click on the blue button that says new thread in the top left hand corner of the main box i hope this helps and thanks again diane xx

penny_pincher_7

thanks harvey i have no luck with cars whatsoever i feel like crying diane x

Wig

Well it sounds to me like you have bought an old car (m = 1994 right?) and you didn't ask when it's last timing belt had been done. And old cars tend to come with problems attached.

You don't have a guarantee from the seller because it is a private sale.


I have no idea if it is a "damage proof" engine, you might like to say what engine it has in it for others to tell you. Still even in a "damage proof" engine there will be damage from a timing belt issue. And the only way to fix that is to take the head off and look, and that is a big job.

I suspect the 150 is just to remove the head and look. They will charge a similar amount to put it back together again, and this doesn't include any work they have to do to fix it. So your minimum is going to be 300 (if you take the head off) unless you decide to scrap it after the first £150. You might find he offers to buy it off you at this point.

The question is does the head need to come off? I would first be asking him to fit a new TB and check if it starts and check the compression.

You say he says there is no compression (pressure) in one and 30lbs in another, is this with the TB reset correctly? I would have thought he would have reset it correctly.

30 lbs is this pounds per square foot or pounds per square inch? I'll assume PSI becase PSF would be even worse.

30 PSI = about 2 Bar which is useless almost zero to give you an idea it should be about 12 - 16 bar or 200 PSI.

If it really does have zero compression on two cylinders then the head definately needs to come off, to see what damage has been done. Even in a "damage proof" engine things inside will have broken off, which could explain the zero pressure.

The point is until you open it up you are not going to know what the damge is.

Your options are:

1. Scrap it now, save your money
2. pay £150 to open it up and get a quote for fixing it and put it back together

2a Then scrap it because the work is too costly
2b Pay for the work to be done in which case the refitting cost will be another £150 plus the cost for work done ???? - ???? 100, 200, 400 who knows.

Wig

rainbowangel wrote: »

This will cost approx £200 BUT they can not charge extra for this because they need to all of this before they do the £800 work. If this doesn't work and they need to go ahead and do the £800 work it should only cost an additional £600 approx the £200 shouldn't be in addition to this.

I don't think that's quite right.

1. £200 for a timing belt change is extortion, but then I am not faamiliar with the ease of doing this on this engine.

2. The above only applies if the £800 included the TB change and compression check. It might not have included that. Because strictly speaking it is not all the same job, you see you are fitting a new TB then checking, then if there is no compression you have to remove that TB you just fitted. So you do have to backtrack.

But as I said above post it sounds like they have reset the timing and done a compression check. And the 800 figure took account of work done (ie timing reset).

Wig

You could visit the garage and ask to see the "zero" compression test in action.

Ask has the timing been reset yet?
with a new belt or the old belt?
Does it start up? ask to see this.
Please show me the zero compression.

If it has zero compression or 2 bar or low compressions, then as I said the only way to fix it is to take the head off. and you will have to make a decision to go ahead or to scrap the car. If you go ahead, you will pay a lot of money, and still something else on the car could go wrong aswell later.

northern_munky

What size is the engine, 1.8 or 2.0? The 2 litre is 16 valves and that is why it is going to cost so much because there are more valves likely to be damaged. According to Autodata both engines are what's known as interference engines which means if the cambelt snaps or slips then the valves will probably be damaged.

The garage may be able to source a good second hand cylinder head as there are loads of Jap breakers around Manchester, then you'd need a new gasket set and cambelt/tensioners plus labour which is 6 hours for the head and belt.

zappahey

If it's a non-interference engine then there may not be damage as "non-interference" means that the valves and pistons don't overlap into the same bit of space even when the belt snaps. This means that the valves won't hit the pistons and nothing should be bent. Presumably, this is what your seller means by damage proof.

I would be very concerned that your garage is either not being entirely honest or are being somewhat incompetent as I don't understand how they can do a compression test when the belt has slipped. When the timing belt is set correctly, it makes sure that the valves only open at precisely the correct moment and, more importantly, that the valves are closed to ensure maximum compression as the piston rises to the top of the cylinder.

I'm happy to be corrected, but it seems to me that if the timing belt has slipped then the valves will be slightly open when they should be closed and you won't get full compression. The compression can only be properly tested when the belt has been replaced and the valve timing has been properly adjusted again.

penny_pincher_7

hi munkey it`s a 2.0l engine so i assume its has got 16 valves and could i ask the garage to get second hand parts and how much cheaper do you think this will be???? he is charging 75.00 per hour labour thanks for your help everyone i do feel sooo stupid xxdiane