Moving on from being sacked for gross misconduct: Applying for work.

JonsArmy

Back in July I was dismissed from my previous job for "Gross misconduct". I used the internal procedures to appeal it as the "evidence" and the reasoning used was extremely flawed but nevertheless the decision was upheld and I didn't want to pursue it further, having also had to battle with my studies at uni and caring responsibilities at home.

The main issue centres around an apparent log in attempt from my computer machine to the firm's online banking. (Which I wouldn't have known the first thing about). I didn't know about this login, needless to say I didn't do it. But when that's on your PC history and you have no real proof there's not a great deal you can do. It was said that this and my denial amounted to misconduct because I was apparently "dishonest".

Since then, I've managed to get two weeks work experience (I know unpaid work boo!) at another firm.

I'm now trying to seek further employment but don't know how to address this issue when it comes to applying for new jobs. I'm conscious that if I'm not asked the reason for leaving, I may have to give a work history and reference checks spanning a number of years.

Given that I'm at the start of my career, legal career at that, I'm not inclined to omit one of few instances of work experience which would actually qualify me for other roles nor am I inclined to lie in a profession which pretty much relies on integrity.

One of the positions I'm looking to apply for is with the Civil Service, who I'm aware *will* want an employment history and do checks.

Has anyone any advice on the above?

Cheers,

J

tacpot12

You should disclose your employment history accurately, but you don't have to disclose your reason for leaving unless asked. Your reason for leaving any position should not apppear in your cv.

If you are asked, you need to explain the facts briefly and state that you did not do the thing you were accused of and that you are disappointed that the investigation wasn't carried out sufficiently well to exonerate you.

daytona0

So there was evidence on your PC that a login was attempted ("But when that's on your PC history")? Really?!

If you didn't try to access the online banking yourself, you've left your PC in a position whereby some other person could use it and have access to sensitive company information.

Can see how this can be justified as gross misconduct, even if they were incorrect about you being "dishonest". Think more negligent.

I think you should take some personal responsibility. That will put you in good stead with future employers, whether you decide to disclose at interview or not and whether you decide to leave a PC compromised and allow any old sod to try accessing company bank accounts from it.

ScorpiondeRooftrouser

daytona0 wrote: »

So there was evidence on your PC that a login was attempted ("But when that's on your PC history")? Really?!

If you didn't try to access the online banking yourself, you've left your PC in a position whereby some other person could use it and have access to sensitive company information.

Can see how this can be justified as gross misconduct, even if they were incorrect about you being "dishonest". Think more negligent.

I think you should take some personal responsibility. That will put you in good stead with future employers, whether you decide to disclose at interview or not and whether you decide to leave a PC compromised and allow any old sod to try accessing company bank accounts from it.

Not necessarily. I can log in to any PC on our network using my log in credentials. It's not the physical machine that matters; it's the user account logged into it. He's not clear whether the log in attempt was made from his account.

Nicki

If asked, and only if asked, you could say something along the lines of "I really stupidly left my computer unattended whilst still logged in to the system and there was an attempted security breach. It was a silly mistake on my part but one I've really learned from" and leave it at that.

sangie595

ScorpiondeRooftrouser wrote: »

Not necessarily. I can log in to any PC on our network using my log in credentials. It's not the physical machine that matters; it's the user account logged into it. He's not clear whether the log in attempt was made from his account.

I think it would be useful if this could be clarified first. Bland excuses about "silly mistakes" are not going to wash for someone who wants a legal career.

Bogalot

One of the positions I'm looking to apply for is with the Civil Service, who I'm aware *will* want an employment history and do checks.

You would be surprised how lax CS checks can be, especially with the mass recruitment campaigns. I recently provided a character reference for a HMRC new starter, and all they required was two character/ personal references and a DBS check. Each campaign will have different requirements, but don't write it off as a non starter.

As for explaining your dismissal, be honest and do not allocate blame. "An attempt to access online banking was made from my computer login. It was not me, but I do acknowledge I left my PC unlocked (if true). This was a hard lesson for me but I have learned from it and am now aware of the importance of information security."

googler

daytona0 wrote: »

So there was evidence on your PC that a login was attempted ("But when that's on your PC history")? Really?!

If you didn't try to access the online banking yourself, you've left your PC in a position whereby some other person could use it and have access to sensitive company information.

Not proven.

Masomnia

I think it's unlikely that you won't be asked at an interview why you have a big gap since July.

You're right that if they don't ask you don't have to say. My concern here is that they will most likely want references and if you haven't said anything and it comes out why you left then I think that's obviously very strong grounds for rejecting your application.

As a flip side to the previous responses, if you've been honest then the reference is not going to be a shock. If they do go to your previous employer and they just say that you were dismissed for gross misconduct then it will obviously put them off as it could be absolutely anything, from dishonesty, to forging a signature, punching your manager, to sexual harassment...

It's up to you, but I think there's a lot to be said for being open and honest. If they're going to find out anyway, you may as well make the best of the situation and bring it up and deal with it, put your spin on it, what you've learned from the experience. People do make mistakes.

In the mean time I'd look at other opportunities for volunteering or temporary work. Hopefully you'll find yourself in a situation where you're not so reliant on that reference.

I hope it works out for you whatever you decide.

JonsArmy

daytona0 wrote: »

So there was evidence on your PC that a login was attempted ("But when that's on your PC history")? Really?!

If you didn't try to access the online banking yourself, you've left your PC in a position whereby some other person could use it and have access to sensitive company information.

Can see how this can be justified as gross misconduct, even if they were incorrect about you being "dishonest". Think more negligent.

I think you should take some personal responsibility. That will put you in good stead with future employers, whether you decide to disclose at interview or not and whether you decide to leave a PC compromised and allow any old sod to try accessing company bank accounts from it.

Erm, I have taken personal responsibility...

It hardly proves anything given that one of the allegations was that I apparently misused my key to the office to come in early and do that. I never had a key to our offices and I said this to the owner of the firm and asked her to produce a copy of any records showing what keys have been issued. She couldn't answer me and to this day refused to address the point. Then changed the story to say that I may not have come in early but the

Also I was an intern so was using a generic "temp" account which everyone who works at the firm has details for. I wasn't issued a personal login like everyone else.

If I left my computer unattended then I'd put my hands up and admit that.
If I attempted to login with a reasonable excuse I'd say that.

But I haven't. I even asked how I'd get the details and her reasoning was "You copy and pasted the details from my computer" (copy and paste from machine to machine? on the other side of the building? Impossible)

Again, it's whether I'd get the time of day to put forward these inconsistencies and whether they'd be born in mind or not because they've clearly tried to assemble some sort of narrative which does not fit.

ScorpiondeRooftrouser wrote: »

Not necessarily. I can log in to any PC on our network using my log in credentials. It's not the physical machine that matters; it's the user account logged into it. He's not clear whether the log in attempt was made from his account.

Exactly. The account I used day to day was a generic "Temp" account that anyone can use. I never had a permanent login like the rest.

sangie595 wrote: »

I think it would be useful if this could be clarified first. Bland excuses about "silly mistakes" are not going to wash for someone who wants a legal career.

See above. There was no silly mistake about it

sangie595

JonsArmy wrote: »

Erm, I have taken personal responsibility...

It hardly proves anything given that one of the allegations was that I apparently misused my key to the office to come in early and do that. I never had a key to our offices and I said this to the owner of the firm and asked her to produce a copy of any records showing what keys have been issued. She couldn't answer me and to this day refused to address the point. Then changed the story to say that I may not have come in early but the

Also I was an intern so was using a generic "temp" account which everyone who works at the firm has details for. I wasn't issued a personal login like everyone else.

If I left my computer unattended then I'd put my hands up and admit that.
If I attempted to login with a reasonable excuse I'd say that.

But I haven't. I even asked how I'd get the details and her reasoning was "You copy and pasted the details from my computer" (copy and paste from machine to machine? on the other side of the building? Impossible)

Again, it's whether I'd get the time of day to put forward these inconsistencies and whether they'd be born in mind or not because they've clearly tried to assemble some sort of narrative which does not fit.



Exactly. The account I used day to day was a generic "Temp" account that anyone can use. I never had a permanent login like the rest.



See above. There was no silly mistake about it

You are misinterpretin, and being rather aggressive, towards everyone trying to help you. For example, if you actually read the posts the "silly mistake" reference was a quote from the post before mine. If you wish to pick a fight with everyone trying to help you, be my guest. But I am fed up to the back teeth of people who ask for help and then attack the people helping them. So I'm out.