paypal unethical conduct

Time2Go_25

I do find it interesting that people on MSE rant and rave about banks and credit card companies and their T&Cs and yet are quite happy to say to people who have problems with Paypal/Ebay, "well it's in their T&Cs".

Do make an appointement to see your local CID officer and get a crime reference number.

andyG_3

cheers Soolin, a calm voice.
I think frivolous-fay has a good point about the names, that's what worries me most. Aside from that, I've looked at buyer's ebay ID and there are two recent feedbacks (since my sale) that accuse buyer of being a hacker.
They state that buyer is being investigated.
Buyer is no longer a registered user...for now.
I suppose the criminal investigation, involving the name(s) and address that I do have is probably my best (and only) course of action.
(awendy1 is the buyer's ebay ID)

Time2Go_25

frivolous_fay wrote: »

On the first point... yes, the hacking was not your fault. It could have been phishing, a trojan / virus / keylogger, or some other carelessness. Luckily for the owner of the account, their credit card covers them for such incidences. Unfortunately, paypal expects YOU to protect yourself.

It may not be hacking the buyer could have just given another address to con the seller out of the goods.

frivolous_fay wrote: »

On the 2nd point... it isn't possible to confirm some addresses - for example, work addresses, and addresses outside the UK and USA. Obviously paypal don't want to lose the custom of those unable to confirm their addresses.

Therefore Paypal should accept some of the responsibility in these cases, they can't just keep washing their hands and saying "Not our problem".

windswept

The waters have now been muddied considerably by paypal giving out WRONG addresses to sellers.
On the power seller board, someone has posted that paypal has said that they will refund any seller who is out of pocket due to sending out to an incorrect address - whether this actually happens remains to be seen.
We really need a sticky about this massive paypal !!!!-up , warning all sellers to check with their buyers that the address is actually correct - in some cases years old addresses have come up , in others, random addresses belonging to other paypal account holders have appeared, sometimes a mixture of old and new addresses. Most buyers don't even realise that their address has been altered.
People don't seem to realise just how serious this is becoming., it's been going on for weeks now - if you have had any INR disputes - it's worth checking this angle out.

andyG_3

thanks frivolous_fay for the link, very helpful.
thanks pdel61 for the CID advice....that's my next move.

On the bright side, I've discovered how helpful people are on this forum.

vikingaero

Make a complaint to the Financial Ombudsman Service. It will cost you nothing and if PayPal pay per complaint then it will cost them around £400. If they pay an annual levy then it is likely that their levy will be raised next year.

PayPal don't give a flying frig about anyone apart from their bottom line. The more people that complain then maybe the sooner they will introduce more security.

andyG_3

thanks, Vikingaero.
I'll do that.
I spoke to police (not CID) and whilst sypathetic, they think I've probably allowed Paypal to access my credit card account by something written in small print in the Paypal User Agreement. Best get my reading glasses on!

daveo138

I was under the impression that Paypal had to give you two days notice of any payments that they are going to take from your card/account.

When buying anything with Paypal, if there are insufficient funds in my account, I 'add' my credit/debit card and then 'remove' it afterwards, so they don't have access to my money.

Having said that, I recently sold an item and then had the payment put 'on hold' by Paypal. Apparently the buyer's bank had reversed the payment. I contacted the buyer who said that neither he nor his bank knew anything about it, although he then paid me via a bank transfer.

I am seriously considering not using Paypal anymore, due to all the problems with them taking user's money or denying them access to it. I'm sure it will make a dent in my (already declining) sales, though.

goshdarnit

andyG wrote: »

Paypal has taken the disputed sum from my credit card account without my permission,

I would be on the phone now, telling the credit card company it was unauthorised and demanding your money back. Your credit card xompany will do this.
Also get onto http://www.financial-ombudsman.org.uk/ and raise a complaint. On no account pay paypal the money. Its there lose, not yours.

andyG_3

Well, as far as the two days notice goes. Paypal emailed me to inform me of the chargeback claim on the Friday and they'd wipped the money out of my account by the end of Sunday. So they put in overtime when it comes to the important things!

I've spoken to just about everyone I can think of for assistance:

paypal(automated phoneline hung me up three times, plus sent contact
form emails which leave no copies so they can deny receiving them)
my creditcard company(forms in post to me)
consumer direct/trading standards(cannot contact TS directly, they call you
...still waiting)
CAB (nice people but no experience),
police (recommend civil action and that Paypal will have stayed within law)
Royal Mail (chasing signatory)
financial ombudsman(too recent for reply)
oh, and you guys, of course!

nb seller protection doesn't cover me, according to user agreement as was an unconfirmed address.

Have learned two interesting things:
Paypal make money on the first transaction (the sale),
then they facilitate a chargeback and make money on that too....they've actually charged me for their unauthorised withdrawal from my creditcard account! So they generate more business for themselves this way.
(that's in their t &c too)

Secondly, about ebay hackers.
They can maintain a high positive feedback score to lure in the next
unsuspecting seller, since feedbacks are left quickly and once only.

I actually left positive feedback for this buyer.

.....damn, 9:25..

....I've missed 'heroes'!