paypal unethical conduct

andyG_3

I hope this is some use as a warning to people using Paypal. I sold a camera on ebay for a few hundred pounds, and six weeks later, have received a chargeback claim by the buyer's credit card company who state that the transaction on their client's credit card was unauthorised. The goods were sent to the address provided by ebay and paypal.
Paypal has taken the disputed sum from my credit card account without my permission, saying that they are 'holding' it according to the 'User Agreement'. Paypal are next to impossible to contact by phone or post, anyone know their UK postal address?
It may be that Paypal have broken the law....we'll see, Trading Standards
are onto it.
I thought I'd avoid fraud by using paypal, but didn't think I'd have to worry about Paypal themselves.
Anyone with similar experiences?

frivolous_fay

You won't have to look very far to find similar cases. I'm sure someone will be along soon to link you one of the paypal scare sites.

Importantly:

- Was it a confirmed address?
- Did you qualify for seller protection?

If yes to both the above, you have grounds for appeal. If no to either, then I'm afraid you really need to brush up on paypal's T&Cs, and any further help will only be obtained via legal means

andyG_3

thanks for fast reply, though even more worried now,
the address was not confirmed and so probably no seller protection.
There are two distinct issues:
One, the original sale on ebay;
Two, the questionable withdrawal of funds from my bank by Paypal.
They did not do this using the direct debit and so had no permision.
They will find some loophole in the User Agreement, no doubt.
(My bank is handling the second issue.)

frivolous_fay

It is actually possible (although unlikely) to have seller protection despite not having a confirmed address - you'd need to look at the transaction screen.

From paypal's point of view... you have sold an item to a hacker, who gained access to the paypal account, added an address he could use, and got the item sent to him. The whole point of a confirmed address is meant to be that you can be sure it's going to the person who owns the account.

The legitimate owner of the account has now put in a complaint against the fraudulent activity, and his credit card has quite rightly recovered his money. Now paypal plans to do the same with you, as unfortunately, you're the weak link in the chain that chose to accept a payment from an unconfirmed address. I'm sorry if that sounds harsh... it's not intended to be... it's just the reality of what has happened. Paypal don't screen every single payment - they ask users to do so, in their T&Cs, and the T&Cs make it clear what can happen.

Does the name and address you dispatched to match the name and address on the ebay account? If not, that would further confirm that the recipient was a hacker/hijacker.

Daisydoll

Unfortunately unless you follow ALL paypal's t&c's this can happen. I have had a buyer state an item not recieved(and she later re sold the item on ebay!) and she got refunded. My mistake was not sending with a trackable method and I lost £500!:eek: Hard but quick lesson learned in my case!:mad:

andyG_3

yeah I've a lot to learn.
Take your point on Paypal's view of things. Have to add though, there are other parties with weak links:

you say that someone may have 'gained acces to the paypal account'.
That must be paypal's responsibility....it's certainly not mine.

If unconfirmed addresses are so suspect then why are they allowed by Paypal?

On the last point, I may be stuffed!
There is a different name on the ebay emails for the recipient at the address I sent to. Two names, one address.
At the time I assumed that it was a couple!

oh dear!

soolin

Daisydoll wrote: »

Unfortunately unless you follow ALL paypal's t&c's this can happen. I have had a buyer state an item not recieved(and she later re sold the item on ebay!) and she got refunded. My mistake was not sending with a trackable method and I lost £500!:eek: Hard but quick lesson learned in my case!:mad:

In that case you neither followed paypals terms and conditions nor did you cover yourself against loss en route. Paypal t and cs require proof of delivery to be shown in cases of a claim for non receipt. Also why on earth were you sending a £500 item with no insurance against loss?

andyG_3

thanks Daisydoll - rough luck.
In fact that's the one thing I did remember to do.
The camera was sent Royal Mail Special Delivery, and they're finding out who the signatory was for me.
I'm set to lose £320.

frivolous_fay

andyG wrote: »

you say that someone may have 'gained acces to the paypal account'.
That must be paypal's responsibility....it's certainly not mine.

If unconfirmed addresses are so suspect then why are they allowed by Paypal?

On the first point... yes, the hacking was not your fault. It could have been phishing, a trojan / virus / keylogger, or some other carelessness. Luckily for the owner of the account, their credit card covers them for such incidences. Unfortunately, paypal expects YOU to protect yourself.

On the 2nd point... it isn't possible to confirm some addresses - for example, work addresses, and addresses outside the UK and USA. Obviously paypal don't want to lose the custom of those unable to confirm their addresses.

It is, however, acceptable to refuse to dispatch to a confirmed address.

soolin

andyG wrote: »

yeah I've a lot to learn.
Take your point on Paypal's view of things. Have to add though, there are other parties with weak links:

you say that someone may have 'gained acces to the paypal account'.
That must be paypal's responsibility....it's certainly not mine.

If unconfirmed addresses are so suspect then why are they allowed by Paypal?

On the last point, I may be stuffed!
There is a different name on the ebay emails for the recipient at the address I sent to. Two names, one address.
At the time I assumed that it was a couple!

oh dear!

Not quite time to panic yet..

You have proof of delivery and you have an address..therefore you can go to small claims. Even if the paypal account was hacked then you have the details you need to serve papers on the person whose address the item was sent to. Best to start with a look at the buyers ebay id..does it look like it was hijacked or does it look like they may be trying to scam you? Either way a stiff letter to the address to which the goods show as delivered is in order. State in the letter that goods have been sent to this address and the money has been recalled, therefore you will seek legal redress to recover either the goods or the payment.

frivolous_fay

This is a very long thread started by someone with a similar problem - there may be some info about taking things via the legal route.

http://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/showthread.html?t=420006&highlight=alternative