Will Govt. win in Supreme Court?

CKhalvashi

antrobus wrote: »

On March 25, 1957, France, West Germany, Italy, the Netherlands, Belgium, and Luxembourg sign a treaty in Rome establishing the European Economic Community (EEC), also known as the Common Market.

http://www.history.com/this-day-in-history/common-market-founded

In 1967 the EEC became the European Community (EC). In 1993 the EC became the European Union (EU). In 2016 the UK voted to leave the European Union (EU).

You've conveniently missed out the European Economic Area, which is not the EU and is now the common market.

EEA membership doesn't mean being in the EU. Just ask Norway or Iceland.

CLAPTON

CKhalvashi wrote: »

My point is that there was nothing either way, and therefore it is completely for the remainers to campaign for. You have confirmed the legitimacy of this already this morning, do the honourable thing and admit that leaving the EEA isn't a given, nor is it fudging Brexit.

In the meantime, you may campaign on the matter in a way that you wish, as is your right.

I believe the referendum was quite clear.
Both campaigns, for leave and stay made it clear, on many occasions that leave meant leaving the EU, single market customs union, european court etc.
There was no-one saying anything different.

I have never been convinced that we will in fact leave or if we do, it will be a substantial one.
The forces of reaction and privilege are very powerful. Most of the CBI, Lords, Commons, BBC, Universities, media personalities, late night TV shows all want to remain and despise the ordinary people who vote leave.

I fully accept that people have the right to campaign however they wish.
However, the clear understanding of both sides, before the result was that we would leave in the full sense of the word. Anything else is hypocrisy : but hypocrisy isn't the worst crime is it?

CKhalvashi

CLAPTON wrote: »

I believe the referendum was quite clear.
Both campaigns, for leave and stay made it clear, on many occasions that leave meant leaving the EU, single market customs union, european court etc.
There was no-one saying anything different.

I have never been convinced that we will in fact leave or if we do, it will be a substantial one.
The forces of reaction and privilege are very powerful. Most of the CBI, Lords, Commons, BBC, Universities, media personalities, late night TV shows all want to remain and despise the ordinary people who vote leave.

I fully accept that people have the right to campaign however they wish.
However, the clear understanding of both sides, before the result was that we would leave in the full sense of the word. Anything else is hypocrisy : but hypocrisy isn't the worst crime is it?

Where's the £350m for the NHS then?

Oh wait, the government didn't make the decision in that situation, so it can't be taken as a given......

There was still nothing on my ballot paper regarding leaving the common market.

mwpt

CLAPTON wrote: »

I fully accept that people have the right to campaign however they wish.
However, the clear understanding of both sides, before the result was that we would leave in the full sense of the word. Anything else is hypocrisy : but hypocrisy isn't the worst crime is it?

Hypocrisy from who? There were maybe a handful of people who made any promise to accept any referendum result. The main proponent of leaving the EU, the man who for years got nowhere with his goal in regular politics yet never stopped campaigning for it, said that a result of 52/48 would not be the end of the story.

I can't speak for everyone but I fully accept that the majority of people in the country who turned up to vote, wanted to leave the EU. I accept that without finding a different solution, this is what will happen.

But that is not the end of the story. Just as I would never have expected UKIP to go quietly into the dark had the vote been remain, I don't think it is reasonable to expect remain voters to change their beliefs based on the will of some other people. I still believe the UK is better off in the EU. I also believe the EU vision is a good one.

If those are my beliefs, it makes no sense for me to start advocating to leave the EU just because more people felt we should. If this was the way politics works you'd only ever have a single party state as any party who lost an election should just listen to the "will of the people" and all become tories.

CLAPTON

mwpt wrote: »

Hypocrisy from who? There were maybe a handful of people who made any promise to accept any referendum result. The main proponent of leaving the EU, the man who for years got nowhere with his goal in regular politics yet never stopped campaigning for it, said that a result of 52/48 would not be the end of the story.

I can't speak for everyone but I fully accept that the majority of people in the country who turned up to vote, wanted to leave the EU. I accept that without finding a different solution, this is what will happen.

But that is not the end of the story. Just as I would never have expected UKIP to go quietly into the dark had the vote been remain, I don't think it is reasonable to expect remain voters to change their beliefs based on the will of some other people. I still believe the UK is better off in the EU. I also believe the EU vision is a good one.

If those are my beliefs, it makes no sense for me to start advocating to leave the EU just because more people felt we should. If this was the way politics works you'd only ever have a single party state as any party who lost an election should just listen to the "will of the people" and all become tories.

I agree with you

CLAPTON

CKhalvashi wrote: »

Where's the £350m for the NHS then?

Oh wait, the government didn't make the decision in that situation, so it can't be taken as a given......

There was still nothing on my ballot paper regarding leaving the common market.

the 350 m for the NHS was a lie: what do you expect me to say or do about it?
You won't be able to shock me by telling me that politician lie.

Moby

CLAPTON wrote: »

I believe the referendum was quite clear.
Both campaigns, for leave and stay made it clear, on many occasions that leave meant leaving the EU, single market customs union, european court etc.
There was no-one saying anything different.

I have never been convinced that we will in fact leave or if we do, it will be a substantial one.
The forces of reaction and privilege are very powerful. Most of the CBI, Lords, Commons, BBC, Universities, media personalities, late night TV shows all want to remain and despise the ordinary people who vote leave.

I fully accept that people have the right to campaign however they wish.
However, the clear understanding of both sides, before the result was that we would leave in the full sense of the word. Anything else is hypocrisy : but hypocrisy isn't the worst crime is it?

Your answer is as clear as mud..................what is our future relationship with the EU to be? There are different levels of access to the single market for example. Do you not want us to have access to the single market at all?

CLAPTON

Moby wrote: »

Your answer is as clear as mud..................what is our future relationship with the EU to be? There are different levels of access to the single market for example. Do you not want us to have access to the single market at all?

I believe in free trade.
I also want the primacy of the UK parliament, courts and law.

So I would want the 'freest' trade arrangements compatible with the sovereignty of the UK.

MacMickster

CLAPTON wrote: »

.

I have never been convinced that we will in fact leave or if we do, it will be a substantial one.
The forces of reaction and privilege are very powerful. Most of the CBI, Lords, Commons, BBC, Universities, media personalities, late night TV shows all want to remain and despise the ordinary people who vote leave.

It is no secret that the privileged elite who have done well from membership of the EU want to explain the referendum result away and turn it into something else. They will try to engineer the illusion of change without any real substance. They have no genuine respect for the ballot box.

Conrad

Farage said on The World @ One today that the monthly currency movement risk is more than WTO tariff imposition would add up to and that's before we account for the £8-£10 billion annual EU club fee savings.