ESA Support group in for a ROUGH ride 2017 (Support group to be CRUSHED!)

belinda1960

Sangie. OK, I agree that the recent consultation appears to be more wide ranging, but the reality is that post "consultation" the government (regardless of denomination) will do whatever it wants so long as welfare expenditure is cut.

sangie595

belinda1960 wrote: »

Sangie. OK, I agree that the recent consultation appears to be more wide ranging, but the reality is that post "consultation" the government (regardless of denomination) will do whatever it wants so long as welfare expenditure is cut.

I agree that may be the case. But that "whatever denomination" is for a reason. I would also like to see decent levels of benefits for everyone. But who is paying for it? We have a growing aged population many of whom are solely dependant on welfare expenditure. A large unemployed population dependant on welfare benefits. And a growing number of people with long term health problems also dependant on welfare benefits. These are bills that have to be paid. How do you propose that we do that?

It is easy to have a knee jerk reaction to cuts in welfare expenditure. I hate those cuts as much as anyone else. But there is no bottomless pit of money. If some people can be supported back into work, and others supported to stay in work, it might help - at least for those people. That still leaves an enormous problem with balancing the accounts. I admit, I don't know what the practical answer to that is. Do you? Because it isn't carry on giving benefits and increasing the levels of benefits to an ever growing section of the population.

belinda1960

Raise taxes.

Used to live in Denmark ; punitive taxes, but well financed health and welfare system. The country is one of the happiest nations in the world.

sangie595

belinda1960 wrote: »

Raise taxes.

Used to live in Denmark ; punitive taxes, but well financed health and welfare system. The country is one of the happiest nations in the world.

There are 5.6 million people in Denmark. There are 66 million in the UK. There is no comparison, even if the UK voters were to agree to raise taxes, which successive elections have demonstrated they would not.

And you also haven't lived in Denmark recently, have you? Massive cuts in benefits have been going on for over three years because they can't afford their welfare state! You get unemployment benefits for two years. Then nothing. Pensions and child benefit have been capped. And the total amount of benefit anyone can claim has been capped so that people are forced back into work. Sound familiar???

Taxing your way out of a welfare crisis does not work. Your skilled workforce deserts the country for places that don't tax so heavily. You end up with the people whose skills are not in high demand, and the people with no skills, being taxed to support a crippling welfare bill - in other words, the poorly paid trying to pay for the unpaid. That does not work.

As I said, knee jerk reactions don't work. In either direction. Before you extol the virtues of a "system that works" it is always a good idea to check whether it does! In Denmark's case, it doesn't.

belinda1960

My partner is Danish - the system is far better than the one that exists in the UK. On the negative side their society is not as multi-cultural as the UK.

sangie595

belinda1960 wrote: »

My partner is Danish - the system is far better than the one that exists in the UK. On the negative side their society is not as multi-cultural as the UK.

For now maybe. But I suggest that you actually have a look at what is happening and you will see that it is no different. Having a Danish partner does not change that. If you don't believe me, try Google. There's plenty of articles about all the cuts to welfare benefits in Denmark.

Maggie_Greenwood

What an absolute load of tosh. People with long-term mental health problems cannot get the support they need because of cutbacks, lack of therapies, closures of wards etc. So what makes the job centre any better at giving people the desired help.

sangie595

Maggie_Greenwood wrote: »

What an absolute load of tosh. People with long-term mental health problems cannot get the support they need because of cutbacks, lack of therapies, closures of wards etc. So what makes the job centre any better at giving people the desired help.

You missed the point. The consultation includes discussion about whether additional options could be healthcare led rather than job coach led. I don't disagree with any of what you say about what has happened, or what could happen - but if everyone simply writes of the chance to have a day on what should happen, then you have lost any chance of influencing anything. That is no different from always dividing the gov't and never voting - if you don't vote, then you have got what you deserve.

Anyway, it seems fairly obvious now that people would mostly like to !!!!! about what is wrong rather than discuss how it may change and how that can be achieved, or even if that is what we are prepared to pay for to achieve it, so I won't be bothering with the thread any more. It's always easier to blame everyone else and complain about the government rather than do something about it. Guess that's still true.

curty510

belinda1960 wrote: »

Raise taxes.

Used to live in Denmark ; punitive taxes, but well financed health and welfare system. The country is one of the happiest nations in the world.

Tax the working man/woman even more, to increase benefit handouts??? Yeah, that will be popular

Lanzarote1938

curty510 wrote: »

Tax the working man/woman even more, to increase benefit handouts??? Yeah, that will be popular

Ridiculous isn't it when a couple with perhaps a large family only have to work 24 hours between them to trigger huge amounts of benefit income.

I get cross when people complain about pensions. At least I paid in and took nothing out for 40+ years except a few pounds in family allowance. These days some people take out almost from the day they leave school, never contributing anything. They cost more than I do.