Forced to terminate study for unpaid work?

Hominu

I have a friend who's currently at college for study 5 days a week, 4 hours a day and claiming JSA.

They have recently been told that they need to attend a work programme for 4 weeks (Mon-Fri, 30 hours a week, unpaid) and have been given a date 1 week before the college program finishes. They have refused to schedule the work program for after the college study and say that unless they attend their benefits will be affected for up-to 4 weeks.

This seems terribly unfair to me. I can understand the sanction for if someone refuses work, but refusing to schedule after a course which they are attending to improve their skill set seems counter-productive to me. Surely they stand more of a chance with a qualification than 4 weeks of picking up litter.

Bogalot

It's unusual that they have been allowed to claim JSA whilst studying 20 hours a week. What course are they doing?

With regard to the WP referral, they do need to comply with any direction given by their adviser. The point of JSA is to get a job, not to have an income whilst going to college.

I am not aware of any current WP provider that sends clients litter picking.

liviboy

Is the course likely to assist your friend in securing employment? If so, I would possibly take the hit for "up-to" 4 weeks.

Before anyone jumps in and says a student doesn't qualify for JSA, the basic rules are:

you’re available and looking for work you may be able to claim Jobseeker’s Allowance. This is a weekly payment to help you while you’re looking for work.
The rules about whether you can claim are complicated, so ask at your local Jobcentre Plus for more information (or your local Social Security or Jobs and Benefits Office if you live in Northern Ireland). As a brief guide, you can claim Jobseeker’s Allowance if:
You’re at least 18 years old but younger than the state pension age (in a few exceptional circumstances 16 and 17 year olds can also claim).
You’re studying on a part-time course and are available and looking for work. Some restrictions apply, however, and if and your course hours fall within your ‘pattern of availability’ for work, you may be required to give up your course to take up available employment.

https://www.nus.org.uk/en/advice/money-and-funding/can-i-claim-government-benefits-as-a-student/

I do, however, agree with Bogalot in that JSA is designed for people genuinely seeking work...not to fund study. Your friend needs to be actively looking for employment and I'm sorry but there are many p/t jobs that would enable him to attend college as well as work. I was at university full time and still had to work the weekends and some evenings (and I don't drink!).

martinthebandit

Hominu wrote: »

I have a friend who's currently at college for study 5 days a week, 4 hours a day and claiming JSA.
.

So what's your friend been doing with the rest of their time?

Hominu

martinthebandit wrote: »

So what's your friend been doing with the rest of their time?

Well I do know they have applied for several jobs, but have been unsuccessful.

Looking into it further, it seems they needed to be unemployed for longer than I thought to be at this stage, so maybe they should have found part time work to fund their study rather than JSA.

Saying that, refusing the offer of delaying the work for a week still seems a bit petty (could understand more if it was 4 - 6 weeks delay). I'm sure if it was paid work they would have no problem in cancelling the course.

So I can find arguments for both sides.

sangie595

Hominu wrote: »

Well I do know they have applied for several jobs, but have been unsuccessful.

Looking into it further, it seems they needed to be unemployed for longer than I thought to be at this stage, so maybe they should have found part time work to fund their study rather than JSA.

Saying that, refusing the offer of delaying the work for a week still seems a bit petty (could understand more if it was 4 - 6 weeks delay). I'm sure if it was paid work they would have no problem in cancelling the course.

So I can find arguments for both sides.

If it was paid work they wouldn't be claiming JSA! They are being paid to seek work and comply with the conditions for that. Not to study. Studying may be a help, but it isn't part of the conditions - JSA isn't a student allowance.

Bogalot

If they're at the stage of being referred to the WP, I hope they've applied for more than several jobs. Is your friend being completely straight with you about his efforts?

In reality anyone without barriers to work (disability, childcare, transport) should have no problems finding work at this time of year. Retail, catering, warehouses have all been recruiting, all work that he could have done around college.

The WP is supposed to improve your employability, whether it does or not is arguable. What it definitely does is gives people a bit of a shove, if they're not making the effort to find something themselves then any element of choice is taken away from them, they're mandated to do whatever is put in front of them. Hopefully he'll find something off his own back before the WP starts.

Hominu

sangie595 wrote: »

If it was paid work they wouldn't be claiming JSA! They are being paid to seek work and comply with the conditions for that. Not to study. Studying may be a help, but it isn't part of the conditions - JSA isn't a student allowance.

Not sure I understand you there. Maybe you didn't read my post right.

What I said was:
=> Cancelling a course because you are starting paid work: No problem. You are now employed.
=> Cancelling a course because you are starting unpaid work: At the end of the unpaid work you are in a worse position than at the beginning as now you have no job and no qualification.

When I was unemployed, the Job Center actually told me to increase my skill set and do part time courses to increase the amount of jobs I could apply for. These courses were all done in the afternoon and in the mornings I had to visit a "job club" to apply for jobs where they paid for stationery, postage, telephone calls, etc. I found this much more beneficial than being told "Do this unpaid work". In the end I got a job offer from a friend and worked 5 mornings and 5 evenings, keeping the afternoons for my study.

shortcrust

Four hours a day for five days a week? To me it sounds like your friend is trying to use JSA to fund full time study. That's not what's it's for.

Hominu

Bogalot wrote: »

In reality anyone without barriers to work (disability, childcare, transport) should have no problems finding work at this time of year. Retail, catering, warehouses have all been recruiting, all work that he could have done around college.

That where things differ, they do have a recognised disability (and get DLA), are not allowed to handle heavy machinery or power tools due to various medications and have to rely on public transport as they can't drive.

I do wonder however that they are not applying for part time work because it pays less or equal to the amount paid out by JSA, and if this is the case maybe some unpaid work will give them a bit of a shove in the right direction.

sangie595

Hominu wrote: »

Not sure I understand you there. Maybe you didn't read my post right.

What I said was:
=> Cancelling a course because you are starting paid work: No problem. You are now employed.
=> Cancelling a course because you are starting unpaid work: At the end of the unpaid work you are in a worse position than at the beginning as now you have no job and no qualification.

When I was unemployed, the Job Center actually told me to increase my skill set and do part time courses to increase the amount of jobs I could apply for. These courses were all done in the afternoon and in the mornings I had to visit a "job club" to apply for jobs where they paid for stationery, postage, telephone calls, etc. I found this much more beneficial than being told "Do this unpaid work". In the end I got a job offer from a friend and worked 5 mornings and 5 evenings, keeping the afternoons for my study.

Yes thank you, I did read it correctly.
=> Go on a course, not seeking employment, pay for yourself.
=> Claim jobseekers, look for work, get off JSA, do as many courses as you like.

The hint is in the title - JSA does not fund studies, it funds looking for work. Those are the rules, like it or not. Be unemployed long enough and you end up on the work programme. And then you follow those rules. I am no fan of the work programme, but it is what it is - your friend doesn't get to have different rules than everyone else. If they do not wish to go on the work programme, they can get a job (or cease their claim). I'm sure there are plenty of jobs that don't involve using heavy machinery, power tools, or driving - Christmas retail, for one. If they are on JSA, not ESA, then they are deemed fit to work. Plenty of people without disabilities take similar medications, and plenty of people with without disabilities can't drive or operate heavy machinery. None of that prevents them working. 20 hours college time a week ( presumably plus private study time?) is an awful lot when they are supposed to be seeking work for 35 hours a week anyway.