Forced to terminate study for unpaid work?

Hominu

That's not what the government says though, Sangie:

You can get JSA while studying part time (including part-time Open University Courses) as long as:

you take a job if it’s offered to you
you do everything you can to look for work, as agreed with your work coach

I don't see where it says you have to looking for work for 35 hours a week.

I think point 1 is where they have a problem, even though it's unpaid work.

The funny part is that this forced work is likely to make them unable to work through sickness and then claim sickness benefit instead as stress is one of the key factors of one of their problems. We'll see how it pans out.

xapprenticex

Regardless, it says he MUST TAKE A JOB, he has been offered a job yet he wants it delayed for a week (yep, its considered a job). Of course they are not going to bend to his demands, he has been unemployed long enough to be referred to WP.

Once the course is over, he will have been funded while studying with no guaranteed job, and tbh a college course rarely lands you a job, what your friend NEEDS is experience, get his foot in the door THEN do evening courses if required.

His work placement may make him as attractive to employers as the course he is doing, not knocking him studying though providing he isn't doing something silly like aromatherapy.

TBH he should be doing evening courses so he is 100% available for work, if he got a job offer 1 month ago would he have just dropped his course? He is not meeting the criteria imo.

sangie595

Hominu wrote: »

That's not what the government says though, Sangie:



I don't see where it says you have to looking for work for 35 hours a week.

I think point 1 is where they have a problem, even though it's unpaid work.

The funny part is that this forced work is likely to make them unable to work through sickness and then claim sickness benefit instead as stress is one of the key factors of one of their problems. We'll see how it pans out.

And there we have it again! If I'm forced to do work instead of being able to do what I want, then I'll be sooooo sick I'll have to play the too sick to work card.

It's pretty clear - it has been the case for quite some time now that people on JSA are required to make efforts to find work on a full time basis, not just in the time they have off in between doing everything they want to. And that second one about doing everything you can to find work as agreed by the work coach? Well that means going on work placements when told to!

Sorry, but I lost all sympathy when you played the "too sick to work" card if he's forced to work. He's not too sick to do what he wants to do. But will become too sick to do what he needs to do to obtain the benefit he's claiming, if told he can't have his own way. You may not like it but Jobseekers Allowance is for people seeking work. Your portrayal of events here suggests your friend is seeking anything but work. If they wished to do studies, then there are student loans available to qualifying students; or they must self fund. Just like everyone else has to do.

And by the way. The definition of a full time student is someone who studies 12 hours a week or more. Your friend is well in excess of this. Full time students are not entitled to claim JSA.

Hominu

Wise words xapprenticex, and more thoughtfully put together than some of the seemingly random and snap comments in this thread.

xapprenticex wrote: »

Regardless, it says he MUST TAKE A JOB, he has been offered a job yet he wants it delayed for a week (yep, its considered a job). Of course they are not going to bend to his demands, he has been unemployed long enough to be referred to WP.

Once the course is over, he will have been funded while studying with no guaranteed job, and tbh a college course rarely lands you a job, what your friend NEEDS is experience, get his foot in the door THEN do evening courses if required.

His work placement may make him as attractive to employers as the course he is doing, not knocking him studying though providing he isn't doing something silly like aromatherapy.

TBH he should be doing evening courses so he is 100% available for work, if he got a job offer 1 month ago would he have just dropped his course? He is not meeting the criteria imo.

Hominu

sangie595 wrote: »

Sorry, but I lost all sympathy when you played the "too sick to work" card if he's forced to work. He's not too sick to do what he wants to do. But will become too sick to do what he needs to do to obtain the benefit he's claiming, if told he can't have his own way.

Well sometimes he is also too sick to study or too sick to go out, if that's what you mean. You'll probably say next that he shouldn't be able to afford to go out.

The ones that really annoy me are the ones that claim JSA and then work cash-in-hand on the side, and then as soon as they are asked to attend some course they immediately cease claiming. The other ones that annoy me are the ones that have kids just for the income, and then spit out more kids as soon as the ones they've had get too old to get benefits for.

xapprenticex

Hominu wrote: »

Wise words xapprenticex, and more thoughtfully put together than some of the seemingly random and snap comments in this thread.

Thanks and I know exactly what you mean.

Nicki

Instead of spitting his dummy out at being asked to do the work programme, can he solve the qualification issue?

What is the course he is doing, and why would missing the last week mean he didn't qualify, if missing a few days at another point in the course would not? If it is because there are exams in the last week, is it possible for him to sit these at a different time if he explains things to the course tutor? (Eg in the evening with evening part time students on the same course) or the following week under exam conditions as would have happened had he been ill that week.

I'm unimpressed by the implication he will be too ill to do the work programme due to stress as well! That translates to me as he will pretend he can't do it. I don't think you can schedule genuine mental health crises in that way. He sounds like a work shy malingerer to me frankly!

sangie595

Hominu wrote: »

Well sometimes he is also too sick to study or too sick to go out, if that's what you mean. You'll probably say next that he shouldn't be able to afford to go out.

The ones that really annoy me are the ones that claim JSA and then work cash-in-hand on the side, and then as soon as they are asked to attend some course they immediately cease claiming. The other ones that annoy me are the ones that have kids just for the income, and then spit out more kids as soon as the ones they've had get too old to get benefits for.

Well if he is sometimes too sick to study, then he must be able to take breaks from his studies. So taking a break to go on a temporary work placements won't be a problem, will it?

This thread is not about whether he is well enough to go out. It is about whether he should be entitled to JSA.

And no I did not say that, wasn't about to say that either! Because it had no relevance to the subject. You do like changing the subject to deflect from the truth, don't you? FYI, I am disabled, worked full time all my life, and self funded three degrees which I did on top of working more than full time hours. If he is too stressed to work and study, then the choice is clear - until he can fund his own study, then he works.

And well done for claiming that he isn't as much of a scrounger as all the people that you think aren't entitled to benefits. That really strengthened your case... Perhaps you should see if throwing in some complaints about migrants will get you more sympathy? That's usually the next step.

This friend? It wouldn't be another one of the "it's really me but I'm not owning up to it" friends, would it?

I notice you neatly avoided the point about the fact that as he is classed as a full time student, he isn't eligible for JSA. I suppose that he has in fact told them that he is a full time student, has he?

sangie595

xapprenticex wrote: »

Thanks and I know exactly what you mean.

So do I. It means he doesn't like hearing any other version than the one he wants to.

shortcrust

I can't help but contrast the OP's friend with people I know who've worked like mad to save money so they could take time out to study. I also can't help but think of a woman at my work who did a full time degree and worked all the hours she could to raise three kids on her own at the same time.

I know the playing field isn't level. People have different capacities and I'm in favour of supporting people to access education. Lots of people need extra help, but using JSA to study full time isn't a sustainable approach.