Has anyone changed their mind about Brexit?

wotsthat

Sapphire wrote: »

Absolutely no one is a 'beacon of impartiality'. Everyone's views are shaped by their own background and by history. Those who forget or are ignorant about history have no future.

Couldn't agree more but it's good for us all to remind ourselves from time to time that, as humans, we are influenced by bias as well as logic.

Sapphire wrote: »

Thanks for the remark about 'idiots throwing stones at each other'. This is not what happened to my relatives in recent history. But nations being dictated to from above, with the citizens having absolutely no control over what a dictatorship does (where the EU is heading), is generally what causes wars, not prevents them. Democracy certainly has its faults, but it is the best system humans have come up with so far. The nations in the EU are far too diverse and different in character for democracy to ever work in such a construct.

That's bias talking. You might like the EU to be more democratic but a dictatorship it ain't.

There is a United States of America and that seems to function so it's not as if there isn't a precedent. It's only petty nationalism, grudges held against people who are generally long dead and madmen looking to highlight points of difference that get in the way.

I refuse to believe the people of Europe are really that diverse in culture and character - just what do you mean? We share a landmass, religion, history and, as far as I see, all pretty much want the same things for ourselves and family.

It wasn't that long ago Americans were full of hate towards each other and it would have been hard to even imagine the US of today.

Not that I ever expect to see a USE in my lifetime. In fact I think it's so unlikely that I wonder why those who worry about such things give it more than 5 minutes thought.

padington

wotsthat wrote: »

Not that I ever expect to see a USE in my lifetime. In fact I think it's so unlikely that I wonder why those who worry about such things give it more than 5 minutes thought.

Exactly right, sovereign power never just gives itself away to a third party. Just doesn't happen. Just like a cat will never chose to become another cat. Either a gang is created to make strength in numbers or they ( cats or countries) get eaten alive by force ( usually when trying to fight the world alone).

I find it much more worrying that soon so many bridges will be blown, that if we have another hour of need, we may find ourselves lacking any loyal and trusted friends.

Currently we're licking the boots of the global bad guy, that is really worrying. Especially when we do have a fairly recent history of running a rather large slave trade and still posses half of the best stolen antiquities around the world in the 'British' museum.

We are uniquely positioned to get a double pummeling should we try and go a bit cowboy for a while.

TrickyTree83

padington wrote: »

Exactly right, sovereign power never just gives itself away to a third party. Just doesn't happen. Just like a cat will never chose to become another cat. Either a gang is created to make strength in numbers or they ( cats or countries) get eaten alive by force ( usually when trying to fight the world alone).

I find it much more worrying that soon so many bridges will be blown, that if we have another hour of need, we may find ourselves lacking any loyal and trusted 'gang'.

Currently we're licking the boots of the global bad guy, that is really worrying. Especially when we do have a fairly recent history of running a rather large slave trade and still posses half of the best stolen antiquities around the world in the 'British' museum.

We are uniquely positioned to get a double pummeling should we try and go a bit cowboy for a while.

Really? Are you a paid troll? No one seriously believes the antiquities will be a prelude to armed conflict.

Masomnia

TrickyTree83 wrote: »

Really? Are you a paid troll? No one seriously believes the antiquities will be a prelude to armed conflict.

Haven't you seen the news? The Greeks are amassing their forces across the Channel ready to come back to reclaim the Elgin Marbles.

Thrugelmir

padington wrote: »

Currently we're licking the boots of the global bad guy,

We are already consumed with American business culture. Bland, profit driven, business destroying, people devaluing...... Trump is simply the icing on the cake. The birth child of the American dream.

padington

Brexiteers and remainers need to United agaisnt the new threat : Donald Trump.

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2017/feb/09/brexit-trump-britain-national-security-article-50

Let's stand with our European friends until he is gone, then Start article 50 ( to honour our democratic principles) once we don't have to side with a psycho to do so.

tara747

Thrugelmir wrote: »

Whether you like it or not Trump is the elected President. The role of the UK PM is to build a working relationship. Time and a place to express opinions. Be a sad day when TM resorts to Twitter and Facebook, and not the official channels.

I didn't suggest that TM should resort to Twitter or FB. I'm simply making the point that, with Britain isolated from the EU27, she's now forced to suck up to Trump in the hope of being thrown a few crumbs. If we do manage to achieve a trade deal with Trump, it will be entirely on Trump's terms.

Sapphire wrote: »

If I do not trust Germany, it is because of the terrible suffering that country inflicted on my family, several of whom actually died defending it, and the ones who survived being left with deep scarring – both physical and mental, which affected them and their children to a great degree.

Again, this goes even further back, to the partitions of Poland for more than 100 years until the First World War, when Poland liberated itself with great difficulty. People in my family died as a result of that, too – both during that war and during the partitions, when those living under the German (and Russian) empires were severely persecuted.

I say this very rarely, but: get over yourself.

Sapphire

tara747 wrote: »

I didn't suggest that TM should resort to Twitter or FB. I'm simply making the point that, with Britain isolated from the EU27, she's now forced to suck up to Trump in the hope of being thrown a few crumbs. If we do manage to achieve a trade deal with Trump, it will be entirely on Trump's terms.

I say this very rarely, but: get over yourself.

Mrs May is not 'forced to suck up' to anyone. She is visiting countries outside the EU to assess the trading opportunities for Britain once we leave the EU. That is her job. I wonder if you also think we should cut ourselves from all potential trading partners, such as Saudi Arabia, China, India and other countries where human rights violations are far more severe than in the USA.

Oh, and don't try to insult me – it won't work. I will just consider you pig ignorant and leave it at that. :T:rotfl:

padington

Sapphire wrote: »

Mrs May is not 'forced to suck up' to anyone. She is visiting countries outside the EU to assess the trading opportunities for Britain once we leave the EU. That is her job. I wonder if you also think we should cut ourselves from all potential trading partners, such as Saudi Arabia, China, India and other countries where human rights violations are far more severe than in the USA.

Oh, and don't try to insult me – it won't work. I will just consider you pig ignorant and leave it at that. :T:rotfl:

Trump is one of the largest global risks right now. He's been trying to break a paradigm that ensured relative peace since the last world war.

Open your eyes and get over yourself

BobQ

Herzlos wrote: »

You're correct there, the Brits have never really got behind the EU.

True. Brits can be very caring and tolerant of other nations and cultures. But here is an arrogance about the British establishment that is ingrained in the way we treat other nations and institutions like the EU.