VCS Parking Charges (3) - Resulted In County Court Claim Form

Coupon-mad

So, they've sent through a detailed WS, once which i was shocked at! They have quoted lost of previous cases in the WS:

- Elliot v Loake [1982]
- Vine v Waltham Forest LBC [2002] 1 WLR
- Thornton v Shoe Lane Parking Ltd [1971] 2 QB
- ParkingEye v Beavis [2015] EWCS

95 % of the WS is them basically...

"breached the terms and conditions displayed for the mentioned car park"

Sounds like the one from Anita Dile in Lamilad's thread, take a look, I wrote a new statement which tore it apart and you can do the same, blow by blow.

I am not an expert on land ownership at all, but the facts you have found from the LR sound like something I would raise for the Judge to consider, as it suggests there is no evidence of authority flowing from the actual landowners to VCS. Include the LR reply with your skeleton and raise it clearly as an issue.

In your blow by blow demolition of their WS you need to tear into them for pretending that they can cite the POFA even though they do not comply with it! This (below) is outrageous but we've seen them try before, you must rebut it, the Judge WILL NOT be familiar with the statute, Schedule 4 (which you MUST include in your exhibits appended to this skeleton argument):

They have included a point of "The claimant submits that although it is not placing reliance on the Protection of Freedom Act 2012, the said Act is statute therefore the claimant has rights to claim unpaid parking charges from the keeper of the vehicle under Schedule 4 (1) (2) (a) and (b) of the act. The rights under this paragraph applies only if the conditions specified in paragraph 5, 6 11 and 12 (so far as applicable) are met and the vehicle was bit a stolen vehicle at the beginning of the period of parking to which the unpaid parking charges relate."

The above is just daft, they concede that the right to keeper liability only applies if the conditions specified in sch4 are met but any fule no that VCS NTKs do not use that wording (but your Judge will NOT know). You need to have Sch4 filed as evidence and point out the crashingly obvious fact this is not a compliant NTK - clue, none of para 9 is there, especially point to 9(2)f.

Also seize on the fact they've said they can't even produce one of the PCNs! That one's chucked out then! No evidence of a PCN let alone a contravention.

They have also included the sentence in their WS "The defendant was aware of the terms and conditions of parking on each occasion, a matter of which has been conceded. Whether or not the defendant believed he was entitled to park without displaying a permit because he was/is a resident is irrelevant."

Firstly, i do believe at no point have i conceded that i was aware of the terms and conditions. Can i do anything or complain about this to the judge as this is totally misleading?

Sounds like their usual cut & paste where they've left something in from another case (I have even seen a lady's case where she never appealed, where BW Legal said in their WS: 'he has admitted in his appeal...').

It is because they are slapdash but you need to rebut this. Also be careful, if you are defending as keeper you can't accidentally talk about who was driving so you can't say ''I do believe at no point have i conceded that i was aware of the terms and conditions.''

Instead, to rebut this you would be saying ''I am the registered keeper and the driver has not been identified so the fact that this Claimant states in paragraph xx of the 'Witness Statement' that ''The defendant was aware of the terms and conditions of parking on each occasion, a matter of which has been conceded...'' is untrue and plain wrong, indicative of a typical 'cut & paste' BW Legal WS (as seen in the public domain hundreds of times) where they appear to have left lines in this WS which relate to another case entirely.

You can see why you need a skeleton argument here, you can't leave all that unrebutted!! Look at Lamilad's thread where I rebutted the Anita Dile WS, blow by blow, and do something similar with yours. And this person is at the EXACT same stage as you:

https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/discussion/5545142

Work out what extra evidence you wish to append and write a skeleton around that, which also rebuts every part of their WS and object to their attempt to re-plead the entire case at this late stage with a cut &paste WS of irrelevant rubbish that you now have to waste you time rebutting.

The skeleton argument is bullet points and should not take ages, don't be daunted. Once you start tearing up their late WS blow by blow, it will flow...!

KimmyHrunt

Thanks Coup. I'm at work at the moment but will have another review tonight.

I spent the entire night last night reading through Lamilads thread.

Thank you

Lamilad

Coupon-mad wrote: »

Sounds like the one from Anita Dile in Lamilad's thread, take a look, I wrote a new statement which tore it apart and you can do the same, blow by blow.

Indeed this sounds like a carbon of the WS I received from Anita Dile in relation to my latest case. I wonder if it's still packed with all the same "administritive errors"

KimmyHrunt

Lamilad wrote: »

Indeed this sounds like a carbon of the WS I received from Anita Dile in relation to my latest case. I wonder if it's still packed with all the same "administritive errors"

Hi Lamilad,

I checked and the referenced exhibits are exactly the same as yours.

I noticed in your thread, there was lots of photobucket links that are broken, i wanted to check their provided WS etc for comparison. Is there any way these could be fixed if i raise them to you?

KimmyHrunt

My other concern is that i'm running out of time here. Apparently the LR have advised that we can only get a complete copy of the lease agreement on Friday afternoon, which leaves me next to no time really to pull it together. I'm way behind on submitting this, i'm worried that the judge/court will discard it and simply use what i submitted last week.

Lamilad

KimmyHrunt wrote: »

Hi Lamilad,

I checked and the referenced exhibits are exactly the same as yours.

I noticed in your thread, there was lots of photobucket links that are broken, i wanted to check their provided WS etc for comparison. Is there any way these could be fixed if i raise them to you?

Hi Kimmy, I've PM'd you.

Coupon-mad

KimmyHrunt wrote: »

My other concern is that i'm running out of time here. Apparently the LR have advised that we can only get a complete copy of the lease agreement on Friday afternoon, which leaves me next to no time really to pull it together. I'm way behind on submitting this, i'm worried that the judge/court will discard it and simply use what i submitted last week.

You can trust Lamilad to help you with this - he knows what to do and managed to avoid all sorts of pitfalls and brickbats thrown at him and still won, twice.

KimmyHrunt

Coupon-mad wrote: »

You can trust Lamilad to help you with this - he knows what to do and managed to avoid all sorts of pitfalls and brickbats thrown at him and still won, twice.

Hi Coup,

I'm just concerned that i'm well behind and its not going to look good to a judge.

Is the judge overly bothered that the complete re-supplied/amended WS and evidence has been provided a day or so before the hearing?

Its going to realistically be Monday before i can send it in.

Lamilad

[

KimmyHrunt wrote: »

Hi Coup,

I'm just concerned that i'm well behind and its not going to look good to a judge.

Is the judge overly bothered that the complete re-supplied/amended WS and evidence has been provided a day or so before the hearing?

Its going to realistically be Monday before i can send it in.

To clarify, you hearing is on or around the 22nd?

You have submitted your WS and a WS from your landlord?

You are now working on your skeleton arguments which you will file and serve with exhibits?

So unless I'm missing something, you're not submitting an amended WS? Your resubmitting the WS's already filed (just in case the court has lost them) and including your skeleton argument and exhibits which you're entitled to do a few days before the hearing.

Someone may correct me if I'm wrong but I don't think you have a problem here. You just need to crack on with your skeleton and get your exhibits in order. The other idea of resubmitting your WS's is that you can now include everything together in a nice, neat, well presented file, with an index sheet and numbered dividers.

Coupon-mad

Lamilad is right. You have got in your WS already, in time (?) so you are not late.

A skeleton argument in response to their WS can be submitted now, no worries. A skeleton argument is not 'required' so there is no deadline. I've heard of cases where a defendant brings their skeleton on the day, or files it two days before, whatever.