Request for popla refused despite quoting legislation, what to do now?

Gin_and_Milk

I realise to some that this will be a very stupid question, but I'm starting to panic a little with regards to preparing for the hearing. I'm hoping to start collating things later today (after the family have left), but apart from emails, photos, my original defence statement what else do I need to submit? Will I need to set aside a few hours and trawl through more PoFA stuff? (I hope not as I've got an assignment due next week, lol).

I don't seem to be able to find as much info with regards to how to prepare for the actual court hearing, and I'm worried that's because most cases don't make it to court.

I can always hope that whoever represents Gladstones will get stuck in traffic on the day and be too late for the hearing I suppose!

If anyone can give me any pointers as to where to look, what to prepare etc I'd be really grateful. Everything has to be submitted in approx 2 weeks and I want to make sure I'm ready in good time.

Coupon-mad

Will I need to set aside a few hours and trawl through more PoFA stuff

Schedule 4 of the POFA is one page, linked in the NEWBIES thread (just as easy to Google it). Not something to sweat over but you do need to spot the differences in terms of the Notice to Keeper MB sent to you.

what else do I need to submit?

- Schedule 4 as mentioned above (and take hard copies of all this to court as well)
- A copy of the sign in the Beavis case, to show what a clear/prominent sign looks like, with the £ parking charge in 'large lettering' rather than hidden in small print.
- any cases you wish to show which are similar (Google 'Parking Prankster case law' to find some - but generally, don't use anything from pre-2015).
- A copy of Henry Greenslade's words 'Understanding Keeper Liability' from the POPLA Annual Report 2015 which helps your husband's position as a keeper who does not have to name the driver but was not driving.


Also I added to the NEWBIES thread recently (under 'Small Claim?') a link to a post on pepipoo by Emanresu (he posts as IamEmanresu here) where he explains what to include with your Witness Statement (WS) and that once you see their WS, you can then add a skeleton argument just prior to the hearing and/or prepare some notes and issues to question the Claimant about their WS (i.e. once you have picked holes in it, for example if it assumes the Defendant was the driver, you can seize on that, etc).

Gin_and_Milk

Sorry I didn't reply sooner Coupon Mad but thanks for that, it doesn't sound as bad as I thought tbh.
I had a look at some Beavis photos, MB's are nowhere near as clear!

Gin_and_Milk

Well I'm having a massive panic now. I had to send my phone to be repaired which I got back yesterday. I thought I'd backed up all of my photos (including the ones for this case), however they've disappeared, I have nothing. I can't return to the car park where it happened to take more photos because it has since been taken over by Bransby Wilson so the signage is different.
Signage wasn't my only line of defence, but it was a really strong one and my position is considerably weaker now. I don't want to throw the towel in as I feel as though I've come too far, but has anyone won a case like this without bringing signage into it? I don't seem to be able to find any.

Ralph-y

" I thought I'd backed up all of my photos (including the ones for this case), however they've disappeared, I have nothing"

where did you keep the originals ? on the phone ? on a sd card ?

where did you think you backed them up to ?

do not take ANY further pics (using the phone) until you sort it out .

have you ever tried restoring/ un deleting / recovering lost files ?

Ralph:cool:

Gin_and_Milk

I thought I'd saved them to my card (like most of the others), but somehow they must have been saved to my phone. I also thought I'd backed them up onto my cloud, but I musn't have done that either. I am so angry with myself!
I'm not very tech savvy (as you've probably gathered), so I will ask my OH about trying to recover lost files, but I'm guessing if the photos were stored on my phone I can kiss them goodbye forever. I have been on images and streetview and I've managed to find some images that should prove useful i.e trees obscuring what little signage there is, very small print about the T&Cs on one of the signs including an admin charge for paying by card. I've emailed those to myself and will print them off when I get back.
I've still got copies of the emails between myself and MB so I can demonstrate to the judge that they have given me very misleading information and that they sent the case to Gladstones almost 3 weeks before they should have done. Unless they've changed the parking meters in the last few days I can get photos to show that the smallest denomination they accept is 20 pence yet the minimum parking price is £1.50. I'm not sure how this will sit with the judge but I'd rather be told I've taken too much info than not enough if you know what I mean.

Coupon-mad

The claimant has to provide signage evidence, so you can attack that.

Did you get your WS in and have they sent you theirs? Let's see it as soon as they send it (and make sure you meet your deadline to file your own WS and documents).

misleading information and that they sent the case to Gladstones almost 3 weeks before they should have done

No. Not procedural minor blips. You need legal arguments to win this - dodgy signs (using their own photos and filing a copy of the Beavis sign yourself, to compare the 'large lettering') and keeper liability using Schedule 4/Henry Greenslade's wording.

Gin_and_Milk wrote: »

With regards to my husband, he wasn't the driver and he is very anxious about speaking in front of a judge, so unless it's non negotiable that he speaks, I'd rather do it.

Thanks for your help - I have a few breaches to prepare then!

You are not a McKenzie friend. You will be a 'lay rep' so DO NOT ask for the wrong thing, not a litigation 'friend'! You will be his lay rep, so also take:

- a printed out copy of The Lay Representatives (Rights of Audience) Order 1999:

http://www.legislation.gov.uk/uksi/1999/1225/pdfs/uksi_19991225_en.pdf

and get there half an hour early and tell the usher when you arrive that will be the case, that you are here to be his lay rep. Then be ready to prove your right of audience with that legislation in case the other side objects. You are NOT a McKenzie friend! You are a lay rep so you get to speak, not him.

Remember a lay rep MUST be accompanied by the defendant too, so he can't decide not to come or he loses by default for the whole hog.


Read this:

https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/discussion/comment/71856136#Comment_71856136

You are describing a situation like JodeeMcD and her husband - read the link to see how she coped! See what her outcome was, last week.

The only issue was the Judge wrongly decided that a non-POFA NTK could cause the husband to be liable. You need to learn from that and be ready to explain when there are omissions in the NTK or it was posted too late (was it?) then there is no keeper liability because para 8 or 9 of Schedule 4 explain what a NTK 'must' comprise and the deadlines for service of the NTK. It is not enough to just issue a NTK, they have to comply with the statute on all counts.

Gin_and_Milk

Thanks again Coupon - Mad, much appreciated. I haven't sent my WS off yet as I wanted a bit of advice first. I haven't received anything from Gladstones yet, and as the postman has already been I won't be getting anything today.

I know you said schedule 4 POFA is one page, having looked online, it's more like 12 pages, do I print all of those out and go through all of it?

I'm so glad you mentioned that I need to refer to myself as a lay rep and not a MacKenzie Friend. I had a look the other day about what they're allowed to do for the defendant and it doesn't look like much. When I looked into it I seriously thought about giving up and paying up because I really don't think my husband could have coped with that and health is more important than money. As a lay rep it seems as though I can do most of the talking, although the info on the link does seem a bit vague and it's only a couple of pages.

With regards to Jodee's case, unless I've misunderstood it looks as though she had filed 2 statements, one on behalf of her husband, the other on behalf of herself. Do I need to do this? In the DQ I said there was only one witness.

With regards to the judge's decision in Jodee's case I've taken that on board too, and I will go on the assumption that my judge is as misinformed as hers was.

I understand what you mean about needing legal arguments and not minor procedural blips. That said, that email is in direct response to MB ignoring the quote from the EU Consumer Rights Directive, so I wouldn't be throwing a curve ball at the judge as their final email wouldn't make sense otherwise.

Do you know if Gladstones would send a solicitor from their head office or send a local one? I'm hoping it's the former, I'm also hoping for heavy snow and traffic jams so that they get stuck in traffic on the M62. That said I've never been a believer in miracles and I'm not sure that now is a good time to start!
Thanks again

pappa_golf

gladstones = skeleton staff , hire in "gun slingers" when needed , said gun slingers may live local and are often more used to house conveyancing than CC cases

when you arrive in court , have all your paperwork tied up in a nice red ribbon , do not allow "gun slinger" to drop papers on you

Gin_and_Milk

Thanks Pappa Golf, I was hoping they'd send someone from Knutsford but like I say I've never been a believer in miracles.

Do I really need to tie it all up in a ribbon? Everything so far is in a ring binder! I won't allow them to drop anything on me, and if they want to discuss anything I will simply say that I am not prepared to discuss anything out of the courtroom as there shouldn't be anything they can say to me that they shouldn't be prepared to say in front of the judge.

Thanks again!