Natural Burial

lessonlearned

seven-day-weekend wrote: »

Yes I agree with that, but surely if your husband had expressed wishes you would carry them out?

Mumps. This, exactly as SDW has said.

It isn't a question of wrong or right but respecting someone's expressed wishes.

mumps

seven-day-weekend wrote: »

Yes I agree with that, but surely if your husband had expressed wishes you would carry them out?

If you have religious beliefs then I think you have to make the decision you think is right. Actually that is silly, even if you aren't religious you have to do what you think is right. I am a Catholic and I believe it would be important to acknowledge that in any funeral I plan. The reality is you don't make the decisions about your funeral from a legal point of view. Your body does not belong to you after death and as someone said, I think it was MissBiggles, the body isn't them. That might feel different to someone who has no religious beliefs, I don't know.

With my husband I would also have to consider the fact that he has been known to change his mind, come to that so have I so I don't think anything is written in stone.

To look at it from another point of view if you die before your husband and you are looking down at him and he suddenly feels he doesn't want the natural burial, it distresses him, he wants your ashes on the table or he wants you in the churchyard where he can visit every day (supposing the natural burial site isn't local) would you honestly want to add to his distress? Or if he died before you so your son was the one who could make the decisions for you would you want him to feel comforted by the service or distressed by it?

It isn't always straightforward is it.

I personally believe that when I die there will either be nothing or I will go to an afterlife. I also feel that in the afterlife I probably won't be fretting about what they did with my body but I would be more likely to fret about how my loved ones are coping. Now obviously it is difficult is LLs situation where she and her father had very different views. Do his feelings outweigh hers? Or are hers more important than him? That is why I say there is no right and wrong and I hate that people bring that into it as it is difficult enough without people adopting that attitude. We can all only do what we think is right.

Of course I hope it will be easier in my case as I have told them to do whatever they like and not to worry about me but each other. I want them to be happy and to get over the loss, I still miss my mother and it was the 15th anniversary of her death a few days ago. Soon it will be the anniversary of my father's death, much longer ago. I can't imagine how much harder it would have been if we had all been disagreeing about what happened. I look at funerals as something healing for the living.

Perhaps it was easier in the past when there was an accepted way to do things according to your own community so there were less decisions to make.

Just a final thought, LessonLearned as a lifelong Catholic I don't think you will have any trouble finding a priest to conduct a mass for your father's funeral. I have known many priests in my life, some were lovely and some were rather more difficult characters but I can't imagine any of them refusing to bury a baptised Catholic. I hope that is reassuring.

seven-day-weekend

Yes I take your points on board, mumps and it must be as people decide between themselves.

If I go before my husband and he decides he doesn't want the natural burial, then that will be entirely up to him.

Look at it another way. My son would find it extremely stressful to have to organise a funeral, he would much rather find it all arranged and paid for and all he had to do was go along with clearly expressed instructions which had already been organised (I am assuming this, I will actually have to ask him!).

If my assumption is correct, however, which I feel it is, why would I want to add more stress and distress into his life when he should be free to grieve?

The burial ground is on the outskirts of our city and he could get there easily on the bus, or even walk, it's about three miles from where he lives.

I know a natural woodland site would remind him of his father, perhaps not me quite so much, although the bat and bird boxes and wildlife pond would. If he wished he could remember us there very easily, more so than with a manicured grave (Although that of course is OK if it is peoples, choices, but it is not ours), becasue it would reflect our lives and personalities.

As for the actual service, he knows we would like a Christian service and would be happy about that.

mumps

seven-day-weekend wrote: »

Yes I take your points on board, mumps and it must be as people decide between themselves.

If I go before my husband and he decides he doesn't want the natural burial, then that will be entirely up to him.

Look at it another way. My son would find it extremely stressful to have to organise a funeral, he would much rather find it all arranged and paid for and all he had to do was go along with clearly expressed instructions which had already been organised (I am assuming this, I will actually have to ask him!).

If my assumption is correct, however, which I feel it is, why would I want to add more stress and distress into his life when he should be free to grieve?

The burial ground is on the outskirts of our city and he could get there easily on the bus, or even walk, it's about three miles from where he lives.

I know a natural woodland site would remind him of his father, perhaps not me quite so much, although the bat and bird boxes and wildlife pond would. If he wished he could remember us there very easily, more so than with a manicured grave (Although that of course is OK if it is peoples, choices, but it is not ours), becasue it would reflect our lives and personalities.

As for the actual service, he knows we would like a Christian service and would be happy about that.

So you are doing the same as me but in a slightly different way, you are thinking of what will be best for those left behind.

By the way I can't do what my husband wants as I know the local authority won't collect his body with the weekly refuse collection and they won't just throw it in the landfill. He firmly believes that funerals are a racket, once the spirit has left the body it is unimportant so he feels the landfill is the right place. He has had to come to terms with the fact that he can't have what he wants. Well you can't win the all can you.

Just to add I went to a natural burial a couple of years ago, it was in a very beautiful woodland and it did suit the man concerned. The service was just at the graveside so no church or anything, very low key and dignified.

The graveyard where my family are buried is overlooked by the primary school my children went to. The children would walk to school through the graveyard or maybe ride their bikes. It was well kept and always bright and full of life ironically, mums with prams on the way to the shops, people visiting grave and the noise from the school. I don't go there very regularly now as we moved 200 miles away but it is different to the woodland but also very pleasant.

seven-day-weekend

I agree that what is left is 'remains', the spirit that made that person unique has gone. Nevertheless I would want my remains to be recycled a bit until they eventually become stardust. I like the thought of being part of an oak tree for a while.

lessonlearned

Thanks Mumps. That is reassuring actually. It has been bothering me. I am glad I will be able to honour my father's wishes.

I do wish you wouldn't keep on criticising my actions. My mother knew in advance that my father would try to undermine her wishes.

That's is why she asked me to safeguard her interests. She knew my sister might waiver under the onslaught but she knew I would stand fast. Her exact words were "I trust you".

So that's is what I did. It wasn't easy to go against him when he was so upset but as I have explained, after a period of reflection, he admitted I was right to Insist we did as she asked.

So alls well that ends well.

SailorSam

seven-day-weekend wrote: »

I would want my remains to be recycled a bit until they eventually become stardust. I like the thought of being part of an oak tree for a while.

I like that. It sounds really nice. It's almost an epitath.

seven-day-weekend

lessonlearned wrote: »

Thanks Mumps. That is reassuring actually. It has been bothering me. I am glad I will be able to honour my father's wishes.

I do wish you wouldn't keep on criticising my actions. My mother knew in advance that my father would try to undermine her wishes.

That's is why she asked me to safeguard her interests. She knew my sister might waiver under the onslaught but she knew I would stand fast. Her exact words were "I trust you".

So that's is what I did. It wasn't easy to go against him when he was so upset but as I have explained, after a period of reflection, he admitted I was right to Insist we did as she asked.

So alls well that ends well.

In agree, if a dying person had asked me to do something because they trusted me to do it, and I had agreed to, there is no way I would not have carried out their wishes to the best of my ability.

As an aside, my mum, despite being an unbeliever, really liked our Pastor, he would go and visit her and she thought he was kind. She asked him to take my dad's funeral and he did.

I asked her if she wanted him to take her funeral when the time came. She said yes. So I asked her to write a letter to that effect and leave it with her will, because my atheist family would not have believed me if I told them.

She got her wish

mumps

lessonlearned wrote: »

I do wish you wouldn't keep on criticising my actions. My mother knew in advance that my father would try to undermine her wishes.

I don't know where I was keeping on as I didn't refer to you in any posts between your previous post and the one above. I was explaining my views, sorry if they don't agree with yours but it would be terribly boring if all discussions on here were just people saying oh yes I feel exactly the same as you.

lessonlearned

Putting in writing is by far and away the best thing to do. Unfortunately mum had suffered a series of strokes so couldn't do that.

I guess it just goes to show tbat we do actually need to plan ahead and actually get it all down in writing. It could save a lot of confusion.