Smoking in hire car - fine

BeenThroughItAll

Guest101 wrote: »

You don't have access to someone else's hire car, that's my point

On each of those occasions, actually, I did. I wasn't the hirer, I was travelling with the hirer, and between 2 and 11 others.

AdrianC

BeenThroughItAll wrote: »

On each of those occasions, actually, I did. I wasn't the hirer, I was travelling with the hirer, and between 2 and 11 others.

If it was hired for business use, then the laws on smoking in the workplace would apply.

Guest101

BeenThroughItAll wrote: »

On each of those occasions, actually, I did. I wasn't the hirer, I was travelling with the hirer, and between 2 and 11 others.

Your missing the point. You weren't a member of the public in This instance. You were in some way related to the hirer, either friend, family or colleague

Guest101

Herzlos wrote: »

If I hire it next, I do.

Or If I get a lift from them, I do.

But not as a member of the public...

almillar

If you lease a car, long term, you're the registered keeper - not the case in a hire car.
Not sure I know the answer to this BTW, but I do know not to smoke in a hire car, not with any part of your body inside it.

BeenThroughItAll

AdrianC wrote: »

If it was hired for business use, then the laws on smoking in the workplace would apply.

Well on several occasions, the hire was personal for family events (it's my parents' 50th anniversary this year, so there's a few large family gatherings), and on others it's been business.


Ultimately, the point I'm making is that I, and several other members of the public, have had access to a vehicle not hired to us and used for various purposes.

BeenThroughItAll

Guest101 wrote: »

Your missing the point. You weren't a member of the public in This instance. You were in some way related to the hirer, either friend, family or colleague

How does being related to anyone, or working with them, stop me being a member of the public? I'm always a member of the public, as are the people I work with and my family. Sure, they're my colleagues or siblings/parents/etc, but they're still, also, member of the public.


If you're stating otherwise, then I'd be genuinely interested to see the Act which defines 'the Public' in statute - as I can't find it. Otherwise, precedent has to apply and I can't find that either, so the interpretation of Acts referencing 'the Public' is subjective in law.

Guest101

almillar wrote: »

If you lease a car, long term, you're the registered keeper - not the case in a hire car.
Not sure I know the answer to this BTW, but I do know not to smoke in a hire car, not with any part of your body inside it.

Im not saying people should, more the civil contract vs criminal law aspect.

Guest101

BeenThroughItAll wrote: »

How does being related to anyone, or working with them, stop me being a member of the public? I'm always a member of the public, as are the people I work with and my family. Sure, they're my colleagues or siblings/parents/etc, but they're still, also, member of the public.


If you're stating otherwise, then I'd be genuinely interested to see the Act which defines 'the Public' in statute - as I can't find it. Otherwise, precedent has to apply and I can't find that either, so the interpretation of Acts referencing 'the Public' is subjective in law.

When you enter a premises, you can wear 'many hats'.


(lets just exclude vehicles for the moment)


If you enter a pub, retails outlet, or anywhere where you are afforded a right of access - which is what you have in such areas, you are a member of the public. These areas are 'private', but you reasonably expect to access them freely during their opening hours. (you can include GPs, Hospitals, police stations, etc.)


There are also some areas where you pay to access, e.g. nightclubs, cinemas, etc. Where you pay for access, but again it's freely accepted that any member of the public can access, it's not restricted to individuals.


- A hire car is obviously restricted to the person hiring it, and anyone he individually invites to join. You couldn't just climb into a car. It's not a 'public' space, it's not open to the general public.


A comparison could be a rented property (I know its excluded for smoking anyway - I mean for the purposes of public access) it's not yours, but you are paying for it and decide who can and cant come in. You have exclusive use of the property.


That was my point. (im not saying im right, im saying that is the logic for my argument)

Car_54

almillar wrote: »

If you lease a car, long term, you're the registered keeper

Very unlikely. In any lease or contract hire arrangement I've ever seen the finance company is the RK and keeps the V5C.

It then gets all the speeding and parking tickets and charges an admin fee for dealing with them.