Ashton moss unfair parking charge

Jacko1893

Back again to update.. So the phone call to the leasing company goes like this.. "we are currently having technical issues and can not take your call at this time please call back later" something tells me I'm already going to have 0 luck with appealing this!! The thing I'm struggling to grasp is how a company can justify issuing a £50 parking charge on a FREE car park for parking away from other vehicles because there is no spaces and there is no markings, surely this can't be charged as there is no loss of earnings to anybody? this is without a doubt one of the most frustrating things I've had to deal with!! "And breathe..."

Jacko1893

The only place that is going to have a loss of earnings is The leisure park itself due to stupid UKPC issuing a parking charge that has made me no longer want to take my family there or meet up with friends for the occasional lunch, they should be charged for loss of earnings to the place!!

fisherjim

I'm struggling to grasp is how a company can justify issuing a £50 parking charge on a FREE car park for parking away from other vehicles because there is no spaces and there is no markings, surely this can't be charged as there is no loss of earnings to anybody?

Sorry I get your justifiable anger but you still don't get it!

It goes like something like this when you appeal:

We have carefully considered your appeal, but are unnable to cancel the charge, the terms and conditions of parking are clearly displayed around the car park, and by staying on site you have aggreed to them.

What it actually means is give us your money, as one of our incentivised Muppets on minimum wage caught you out, and wants his bonus, and we have not considered your pathetic appeal but will bully and hound you till you give in.

The only way you will see if it's justified is if it got to court and a judge decides.

Jacko1893

Yes I do struggle with it, I struggle to see why any normal business would have a free car park to let some unqualified team of scrotes come in and operate on there land in most cases for free which potentially loses them business for the sake of people taking there family said after a hard day/week of work to spend quality time with them to come back to a ruined day with an added bonus of paying some bandit £50 to park on a free car park, I can't grasp this concept! As reccomended I have tried to contact land owner via telephone but there offices are shut on weekends so I have sent them a message on there website, the car company I'm struggling to get hold of to notify them early so I am going to send them an email so it is in writing that I will deal with this matter myself

Jacko1893

So by the looks of the comments and not being able to speak to anybody I now feel trapped in to knowing inevitably I'm going to have to pay some lazy leech of the society my hard earned money for parking on a FREE CARPARK not breaking any laws or doing anybody any harm or being an inconvenience to anybody (I can't stress this enough) waste of money

Fruitcake

Jacknutt93 wrote: »

So by the looks of the comments and not being able to speak to anybody I now feel trapped in to knowing inevitably I'm going to have to pay some lazy leech of the society my hard earned money for parking on a FREE CARPARK not breaking any laws or doing anybody any harm or being an inconvenience to anybody (I can't stress this enough) waste of money

Why do you want to speak to anyone? You have already been told to write to the lease company and tell them that you are dealing with this, and to send the BPA template in blue to UKPC from the NEWBIES thread.
These should be your priorities before contacting the landowner because as I have said before, it is imperative that the lease company do not pay this on your behalf. You need to contact them first. It's your number one priority to get this away from them before UKPC contact them.
Your second priority is then to get the attention of UKPC, before they contact the lease company.

Read about UKPC. They were caught doctoring time stamps on photo' "evidence" and were temporarily banned from obtaining keeper details from the DVLA as a result.
They have been investigated three times for dodgy behaviour, and any and all pictures they produce as evidence should be robustly challenged.
When you eventually get hold of the landowner, tell them all about the scammers and their tactics.

Nobody here has ever suggested that you should pay so I'm confused why you think that way.

The message on this site is loud and clear. Do not pay the scammers. A little bit of effort is needed from you. Don't think this can be rectified with a couple of 'phone calls.
We can point you in the right direction but you have to do the legwork.

Coupon-mad

Jacknutt93 wrote: »

So by the looks of the comments and not being able to speak to anybody I now feel trapped in to knowing inevitably I'm going to have to pay some lazy leech of the society my hard earned money for parking on a FREE CARPARK not breaking any laws or doing anybody any harm or being an inconvenience to anybody (I can't stress this enough) waste of money

No-one here has said 'inevitably you will have to pay'. What made you think that? The NEWBIES thread tells you how to appeal and at no point (not even in the court claim section) do we say people should just pay!

it was a lease vehicle not my own,

You simply need to send the usual appeal in the NEWBIES thread but saying you are the lessee/hirer (use those words instead of 'keeper'). To read the NEWBIES thread we'd all suggest getting off your phone and looking at it on a laptop or PC, ready to copy the appeal shown there in blue writing and changing the word 'keeper' to lessee/hirer.

I suggest that deliberately, ready for an extra appeal point at POPLA stage.

Only submit your appeal online around day 26 (but you will learn that when reading the NEWBIES thread on a laptop, not phone).

Jacko1893

Hi all is this the template that I need to send to UKPC?

''Dear Sirs

Re: PCN No. ....................

I refer to the above notice which I challenge as keeper of the car, on the following grounds:

a). The sum sought does not represent a genuine pre-estimate of any loss and yet it is intended as a deterrent, so the charge is a penalty. There is no commercial justification for the charge.
b). The signage on site is deficient, the wording unclear and it fails to comply with the Code of Practice.
c). In the absence of any evidence it is my case that you lack any or sufficient proprietary interest in the land.
d). Your notice was deficient and fails to comply with Schedule 4 of the Protection of Freedoms Act 2012.
e) Any contract with myself, or the driver, is denied.

The purpose of this communication is threefold:

1. This is my formal representation
There will be no admissions as to who was driving that day and no assumptions can be drawn in the absence of evidence. I have decided to appeal this as keeper and as such, you must either rely on the POFA 2012 or you must cancel the charge if you know you cannot claim keeper liability in this case. Please uphold this challenge or send a rejection letter, so I can escalate this matter to the independent appeal service offered by your Trade Body.

2. ''Drop hands'' offer
The alleged 'parking charge' is baseless but I understand that you will have incurred nominal costs in the mostly automated process of issuing a Notice/letter. Equally, I have incurred costs to date, for researching the law, reading your Notice & handling the matter and responding, despite a lack of any contract existing in a durable form. I calculate both my costs and yours to be under £15 at this early stage. Therefore, this is a formal “drop hands” offer as my costs and yours so far, are similar. Withdraw your charge within 35 days of receiving this offer and I will not pursue you for my costs.

3. Notice of my withdrawal from this alleged contract
I hereby give notice that I am exercising my right to withdraw from the alleged contract (the validity of which is denied) for the apparent parking event described in your Notice. The alleged contract was never properly offered or explained by you, nor was any service from you expressly requested by the driver or by me - and it is hereby cancelled. Any obligations now end, save in the case of an independent appeal being offered to me at this stage by you.

If I avail myself of that provision then my notice of withdrawal extends merely to undertake that process in the interests of good faith. But my alleged obligations end immediately after the decision (whatever the outcome) made by the IAS or POPLA.

Neither the driver nor myself gave 'prior express consent' or any consent at all for the alleged contract. A contract derived merely from a sign is at best based upon implied consent/performance (which is also denied). Nor was the driver or myself informed in a clear and comprehensible manner, of the right to withdraw from a consumer contract and the duration and manner in which this could be done. Nor did your signs/Parking Charge Notice state certain information required for a contract, such as (but not limited to) the name and geographical address of the client on whose behalf you are acting as agent. Nor did you serve the required contractual information by durable means prior to the parking event.

As such, you have breached the information requirement of the Consumer Contracts (Information, Cancellation and Additional Payments) Regulations 2013.

Yours faithfully


{the registered keeper's name} ''

Jacko1893

Or is there an updated version?

Jacko1893

Interestingly I just came across this, must be from some regulation..

13 Grace periods
13.1 Your approach to parking management must allow a
driver who enters your car park but decides not to park,
to leave the car park within a reasonable period without
having their vehicle issued with a parking charge notice.
13.2 You should allow the driver a reasonable ‘grace period’
in which to decide if they are going to stay or go. If the
driver is on your land without permission you should still
allow them a grace period to read your signs and leave
before you take enforcement action.
13.3 You should be prepared to tell us the specific grace period
at a site if our compliance team or our agents ask what it is.
13.4 You should allow the driver a reasonable period to leave
the private car park after the parking contract has ended,
before you take enforcement action.

the issue time and time first seen are both exactly the same, is there any use of these regulations in my case?