Potential Severe Damage caused by end of Tenancy Cleaners

Countist

Hi there,

Seen lots of similar threads around, but believe this situation to be unique or at least different.

Me and 2 other flatmates were privately renting accommodation for three years, and at the end of the tenancy we decided to get an end of tenancy clean done.

Firstly, I'll caveat the story with the fact that the landlord is a very reasonable man, and certainly isn't some sort of con artist nor influenced by some sort of management company who are trying to penny grab.

We paid for a professional clean at the end of the tenancy but to cut a long story short they completely ballsed up, there were some bits that were not cleaned satisfactorily and they allegedly used far too much water to clean the carpets, resulting in water coming through to the flat below (the landlord alleges and I have no reason to doubt him). Additionally the carpets may now be ruined and the landlord has stated that if they need relaying he will unfortunately be claiming the entire deposit back.

Now I'm going to split this into two parts, firstly the things that haven't been cleaned well enough. Should these have been identified by us, the tenants before the company had left? Or is it reasonable to say that only after the inventory clerk had finalized his checkout report could we have known this?

The cleaning company have a guarantee they will offer a refund if the clean isn't up to scratch, but it's only valid for 48 hours post clean and only if we know of deposit deductions due to the clean. The finalized inventory report wasn't delivered to us (due to slow estate agents, and the below) until now, nearly 3 weeks later so this no longer applies. Can the landlord make deductions from the deposit here and could we say we paid for the professional clean and that's that (except less matter-of-fact ly)

Additionally, the problem with the carpets. Now I'm wondering what's right here, are we the tenants liable since we selected the company/therefore invited them in and thus it is reasonable to deduct from the deposit. Or could we say that since this damage was caused by a third party (negligence, I guess) that this should not be something that should be deducted from the deposit since it wasn't damage caused by the tenants and instead either claimed on the landlord's insurance or else something for the small claims court?

The above was also the reason why the inventory report took so long to reach us, since the landlord wanted to wait until he knew the extent of the damage before giving us it also with potential deductions.

Finally, a hopefully irrelevant point but the landlord DID recommend a cleaner to use, we weren't able to use him since he was not available on days required and instead used someone else, presumably this is entirely reasonable and cannot be used in any argument against us?

Any help would be much appreciated, I don't really want to lose 3k uneccessarily

Tom

anselld

You have selected, employed and paid for cleaners, therefore you are responsible for whatever they have done on your behalf.

Having said that, the L must still provide adequate evidence that the carpets that the carpets have been ruined and need to be replaced and evidence of their state at the start of tenancy. He must evidence the cost of replacement and he must allow for their age. He cannot simply claim the whole deposit, nor can he claim "new for old" he must make allowance for age.

In turn, you may still have a claim against the cleaning company, regardless of their terms, if you can show that they have caused damage through their actions. However that is between you and the cleaning company, nothing to do with the L.

Elfbert

Sounds like the first port of call should be the cleaning company.... but no idea how they'll react/what evidence you can show them that it was their negligence. Surely they have insurance for damage they cause? Just hard to prove, maybe...

How come the flat below didn't report very quickly that there was water coming through?

Countist

Thanks for the responses


AnsellD - the landlord stated the carpets were nearish new when we moved in. I guess the original inventory photos semi-prove this.


He also said the cost would be circa 3k, and the deposit is a bit less so he isn't rashly claiming the whole thing it has been thought out. I will of course ask for the evidence of this and evidence the current carpets are ruined etc though.


Elfbert - the flat below did report the water reasonable quickly, within a day. However the landlord couldn't be sure whether it was the clean that caused it until he got a third opinion. Additionally I don't think the water leak actually caused any damage so it was more the carpet damage and he wanted to wait for it for to dry before assessing the situation (took several days)


T

Hoploz

It sounds to me like the LL will bill you for the damage (eg your deposit amount) and if you believe the cleaning co are liable you'll have to deal with them in turn. The contract was between you and the cleaning co. I suggest whatever evidence the LL gives you, you should pass on to the cleaning co. It might be wise to get them in to inspect for themselves as early as possible if you intend to claim from them. I would expect your LL to be reasonable enough agree to this as long as it is organised v quickly.

anselld

Countist wrote: »

AnsellD - the landlord stated the carpets were nearish new when we moved in. I guess the original inventory photos semi-prove this.


He also said the cost would be circa 3k, and the deposit is a bit less so he isn't rashly claiming the whole thing it has been thought out. I will of course ask for the evidence of this and evidence the current carpets are ruined etc though.

T

£3k to carpet a flat is either a very expensive carpet or a very large flat! And even if it is £3k, as I said he cannot claim the full cost as that would be betterment.

The L might be OK and might be right in terms of the actual damage, but you need to verify this and not just take his word, particularly as far as the total cost - £3k could easily carpet a 4 bed house at a decent quality!

konark

No landlord in their right mind is going to spend 3 grand to carpet one room.

Just how much is your deposit? You seem to suggest it's almost £3,000 which is outrageous.

Please ignore both these points if it was a luxury London penthouse.

The cleaners were YOUR agents and you are liable for their actions both to your LL and the person in the flat below.

Whatever the LL or 3rd parties claim off you, you can claim off the cleaning company, if you can find them; doing that sort of thing they probably won't be in business long.

[Deleted User]

I am afraid I would need proof that the carpet company was so negligent, that the carpets took so long to dry out, that things weren't cleaned satisfactorily, that damage was caused because too much water was used (unless they cleaned with a hose pipe), this would be difficult to do. A cleaner might not leave a carpet completely dry but enough for it to leak through to the flat below? I'd be a bit suspicious.

Plus you will need this evidence to prove the cleaning company didn't do what they were supposed to.

So I'd be asking for evidence from the LL. However nice he might have seemed, I suspect he's being a bit dodgy about this.

Hoploz

Yes frankly I do find it hard to believe that water has leaked to the downstairs flat just from carpet cleaning.

Countist

Addressing some of the comments in order..

Not a penthouse but that is 6 weeks rent (between 3 of us), sucks to be in London!

The landlord has been getting third opinions from the cleaner/company he originally recommended us during this, he said he'll have a final decision on the carpets tomorrow.

So I'll need

• Photo evidence of the carpet being fooked
• Potential cost of relaying
• Perhaps some sort of formal opinion on the carpet from the other cleaning company?

Regarding the 3k cost, I've no idea how reasonable unreasonable it is. The landlords view is that while water only came through in one place, it's likely all the carpets need replacing since the whole maisonette (over 2 floors) smells of damp wool. Anyway I guess we have to cross our fingers for tomorrow.

FBaby

You really need to work with your landlord on this one as clearly he has gathered the evidence and that is the evidence that you would need to use to sue the cleaning company.

As it stands, you are responsible, so I think you should agree with your landlord to take the case to the ADR for them to consider what is acceptable to deduct from the deposit. You can then use all this evidence to sue the cleaning company.