Card used without permission - Asking bank to get money back from council.

ChrisA95

Sambella wrote: »

Who did you not give permission to?

The person you gave your card to by any chance?

Lettting another person use your card was at your own risk.

I

I fail to see how that makes sense, I allowed the use of my card for one particular payment. Allowing the use of it once doesn't mean they can do whatever the hell they want. Say if you allowed your friend to borrow your bike, but instead he/she ran off with it and refused to give it back, are you suggesting that it isn't considered theft because you allowed them to borrow it?

ChrisA95

unholyangel wrote: »

What you might want to check is that the council aren't taking future payments from your card - they've been known to do this (to try recoup arrears from any payment details they have at all regardless of why they have those details).

Just a bit strange theres been a separate transaction for £3. If it was a payment fee, I'd have expected it to be included in the initial transaction rather than making a separate charge for it.

Thanks, I give the council a call sometime tomorrow. Not sure what the £3 payment was for.

shaun_from_Africa

unholyangel wrote: »

I've yet to see a set of T&Cs that considers it negligent to give a third party your card/card details (your PIN number yes, but not the card/details themselves).

If it did, I'd wonder how you were ever supposed to buy anything.

There is a big difference in handing your card to someone to enable them to take payment (such as in a shop) and handing over your card to someone else to allow them to get a payment debited from that card.

The bank I use (Natwest) clearly state that no transaction will be refunded if the payment was made by someone if the account holder allowed them access to the account unless it was agreed by the bank beforehand.

4.5.4 You are responsible for the payment and your account will not be refunded where you have acted fraudulently. None of the provisions limiting your liability set out in General Term 4.5.5 to General Term 4.5.7 will apply.
4.5.5. Where you have:
(a) allowed another person to make payments (other than someone that we have agreed may be allowed to use your account); or
(b) failed intentionally or with gross negligence, to keep your security details secret and a credit balance on your account is reduced by the unauthorised payment(s), you will be responsible for all payments made in this way before you tell us that any transactions are unauthorised.

http://personal.natwest.com/content/dam/natwest_com/currentaccounts/downloads/NWB-3-in-1-Terms.pdf

ChrisA95 wrote: »

I fail to see how that makes sense, I allowed the use of my card for one particular payment. Allowing the use of it once doesn't mean they can do whatever the hell they want.

As the link I've posted above shows, as far as the bank will be concerned, that is exactly what it will mean.

shaun_from_Africa

ChrisA95 wrote: »

Thanks, I give the council a call sometime tomorrow. Not sure what the £3 payment was for.

Even though the payment was taken from your card, I would be very surprised if the council will enter into any discussion regarding the matter due to data protection laws.

bris

ChrisA95 wrote: »

it was about £45 (Included 2 weeks missed rent). I was annoyed as she didn't have any money so I couldn't do anything.

Forget the the rest just tell us where we can rent a house for 20quid a week,

unholyangel

shaun_from_Africa wrote: »

There is a big difference in handing your card to someone to enable them to take payment (such as in a shop) and handing over your card to someone else to allow them to get a payment debited from that card.

The bank I use (Natwest) clearly state that no transaction will be refunded if the payment was made by someone if the account holder allowed them access to the account unless it was agreed by the bank beforehand.


http://personal.natwest.com/content/dam/natwest_com/currentaccounts/downloads/NWB-3-in-1-Terms.pdf

As the link I've posted above shows, as far as the bank will be concerned, that is exactly what it will mean.

So can you please explain what that big difference is? Especially since anti-scamming advice is to never to let shop workers have physical possession of your card? Or how exactly its safer to give your card details to a faceless merchant as opposed to someone you know personally?

Also, none of what you've posted conflicts with what I said. I said I've yet to see a set of T&C's that consider the account holder negligent to give a third party your card or card details. PIN is a different story though as I said.

The T&C's you've quoted seem to support this in several sections:

Protecting your account
You must:
(a) keep your PIN (personal identification number) and other security details secret; and
(b) tell us immediately if you think someone else may know your security details or if you suspect unauthorised use of your account by phoning us

4.5.6 You will not be responsible for any unauthorised payments where:
(a) you have not yet received your security details; or
(b) these have been made by someone who has your security details and has used them
without your authority to make a payment where the account holder does not need to be present, such as the purchase of goods or services by telephone, over the internet
or mail order.

Quite strange that you wouldn't be liable when they actually have your security details (unless you authorised that payment) but would be liable just by disclosing the card details (which are not security details).

Also to note the rules are also different where credit (ie credit card or overdraft) are involved due to the Consumer Credit Act - even if you are grossly negligent, your liability is limited to £50 I believe.

Sometimes, the law just isn't what you would expect.

unholyangel

bris wrote: »

Forget the the rest just tell us where we can rent a house for 20quid a week,

I thought it was just me. I mean I'd consider where I live really good for house prices yet a 1 bedroom council flat will still cost around £50 a week (or at least thats what a friend pays for a studio flat!).

Was thinking its possibly bedroom tax?

steampowered

I'd be surprised if the bank refunds you to be honest. You did let her use your card to pay the council, so I think the payment was made with authority.

The situation may be a bit different if the payment was £1,000, but it was only a bit more than you agreed to in the first place.

daytona0

ChrisA95 wrote: »

Whether you think this post is "genuine" is up to you. As far as I am aware the bank can possibly do a payment dispute and potentially get the money back. I know it is a long shot and probably a bit excessive for just £3.

Probably?

I already know the answer to this (and the implications), but I'll ask it anyway

Why didn't you transfer £30 (or X amount) to the family member so that they could use their usual payment method to clear the debt?

(and it isn't the "they don't have the means to pay" excuse because you've been used as an emergency here, so they have something in place to make the usual payments)

The reason may well shed some light on the situation It may also give you some cause for concern in the future. A fairly inexpensive lesson one might say.

Sambella

ChrisA95 wrote: »

Thanks, I give the council a call sometime tomorrow. Not sure what the £3 payment was for.

In your first post you gave the person permission for £30. It was only when they came off the phone you found out it was for 'about £45' so you did not initially give permission for £45. That's ok?

Maybe the about £45 was actually £48?