Free Homeopathic treatment anyone?

Tao81

“Whoever undertakes to set himself up as a judge of Truth and Knowledge is shipwrecked by the laughter of the gods.”

Unthinking respect for authority is the greatest enemy of truth.” Albert Einstein

superscaper

Surely if taking pure water because it "once contained a substance" is effective then wouldn't it be more likely to kill you since the water was just as likely at once stage come into contact with something poisonous such as cyanide. To put it into context statistically, in a single glass of water there will be at least one molecule that's passed through the bladder of Oliver Cromwell. So if water could theoretically remember every substance it's been in contact with (which strangely it's never demonstrated this property when tested) then why would it only be a specific substance remembered according to the diluter's wishes?

Toothsmith

I'd agree with both of those.

superscaper

"Keep an open mind, but not so open that your brain falls out" - Richard Feynman

If we are to all be truly objective and open minded then ALL medicine should be tested in the same way under the same rigourous conditions. Yet homeopathy gets to bypass all testing for both efficacy and more concerningly for safety (which if homeopathy works it could be the most dangerous substances there are as explained in my above post). The NHS shouldn't be spending money on things that don't get tested. (The Homeopathy hospital recently got a refurbishment with NHS money that could have paid for 500 nurses!!!).

Tao81

The Cochrane Group, among others, has created a hierarchy that has been endorsed by many academic institutions, and that serves to (re)produce the exclusion of certain forms of research.
http://www.badscience.net/?p=277

Toothsmith

Tao81 wrote: »

The Cochrane Group, among others, has created a hierarchy that has been endorsed by many academic institutions, and that serves to (re)produce the exclusion of certain forms of research.
http://www.badscience.net/?p=277

Well if unobjective, anecdotal opinions are OK then - I think they're as mad as a bagfull of frogs!

superscaper

Finally, some sensible people in the NHS: http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/kent/7015675.stm

Spokeswoman Emma Burns said the move was because "the NHS has to decide the best use of money on the evidence of clinical effectiveness".

superscaper

I guess the point is that contrary to the original post, it isn't free. The NHS's money is our money so we're all paying for an untested, unproven "medicine". If people want to pay for this rubbish, let them, but why should I be paying for it? I think most people wouldn't want to pay for Government astrology departments so I see no difference with us having to pay for homeopathy.

Toothsmith

toffeepennys wrote: »

the human nose can smell metacaptan a a concentration of one part in 500,000,000,000 (the chemical that isadded to natural gas to give it is unmistakable and universal smell\0

a salmon can detect the scent of home water in a dillution of one part in 1,000,000

That is a 5 with 11 '0s' after it

or a 1 with 6 '0s' after it

Homeopathy 'works' at a dilution of 1 in 10000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000

Give or take a '0' or three

There have been NO proper scientific studies that show homeopathy works above placebo level. But several proper scientific studies that show it doesn't.

Physics does not explain homeopathy.

The radiation used to treat cancers is actual real radiation, not something that once came into contact with something that came into contact with something that came into contact with.... (x 397)... radiation.

Homeopathy is probably one of the biggest cons around at the moment, excluding Father Xmas and the Tooth fairy, who are, essentially, harmless.

superscaper

toffeepennys wrote: »

it has been tested on numerous occassions by drs, the government and hundreds of years of so called pharmaceutical companies and all have shown great results.

the theory behind homeopathy is that like cures like,

Firstly, I guess forum etiquette doesn't mean anything to you, I've only attacked the idea not the posters yet you're already attacking me personally about my intelligence. :rolleyes:

Next, care to share these results/tests. I'd like to claim the Randi prize of $1 million for demostratable proof.

As for "physics", the dilutions we're talking about means there's nothing of the original substance left and completely different concentration values to your examples. Homeopathy has never passed a single double blind test above a placebo AFAIK. But if you want to give me something to look at then I will (rather than personally insult you which you can't seem to refrain from doing).

You've made the assumption that I haven't done any research on it and you seem to imply that I don't know any science, what's that based on other than you simply disagree with my views?

And if I may quote Martin: "Pls be nice to all MoneySavers." Disagreement on a subject is one thing but turning it into a personal attack is completely out of order and you're posting on the wrong forum if that's what you're here for.