I will knock you out ! BBCs Jeremy Vine films woman driver`s shocking road rage

fred246

esuhl wrote: »

The infrastructure needs to change too. Roads were designed without a thought for cyclists, bringing cyclists and motorists into conflict. Our road infrastructure is outdated and in need of an overhaul.

Cycle paths need to be safe to ride on and connected so that cyclists want to use them, so that traffic of different speeds is segregated where possible. If we could achieve that, it would even be reasonable to ban cyclists on many trunk roads. (Come on -- you'd like that, surely?!)

And through-motor-traffic needs to be reduced in residential areas and town centres so that people can enjoy public spaces again. Our village is choked with traffic trying to save a minute or two over taking the bypass. The shops, bars and cafes are empty. It's grimy, noisy, polluted, dangerous for the elderly residents in the "assisted living" flats when they're trying to go for a walk. The whole centre could be pedestrianised as the bypass is a mere 50 metres away with access at both ends of the village. But shopkeepers insist that the 8 parking spaces right outside their shops are enough for the village to suffer perpetual gridlock, lest they should lose any passing trade.

With a few (major) tweaks to the road system, we could make our towns and villages nice places to be, segregate motorists and cyclists (to an extent), and be speaking Dutch in a few years. It'd be great for everyone!

Having cycled extensively in Holland the other thing to mention is that at a junction between a road and a cycle path the motorist always gives way to the cyclist. I found it really hard at first as I kept giving way to cars that were stopping for me. People may think that this is anti-car but actually it works very well. In the UK in an urban area at rush hour the roads are blocked by numerous motorists sitting on their own in large vehicles with empty seats. If you make cycling safe and convenient more people then cycle so the roads are not congested. So the cyclists can travel without numerous stops and the motorists aren't stuck in queues of traffic.

Norman_Castle

prowla wrote: »

That's not what it says; the HC says keep left, but does not mention the left lane of a single carriageway.

Viewing a highway from kerb to kerb, which rule in the Highway Code tells you not to drive on the right?

brat

prowla wrote: »

That's not what it says; the HC says keep left, but does not mention the left lane of a single carriageway.

The HC actually says "KEEP TO THE LEFT" This is part of the first chapter of "General Rules of the Road". It is directly after the instructions on what you should do before moving off. It's THE rule that instructs us to drive on the left of a road, not on the right. Indeed this was the first rule of the road in the original Highway Code

If you were to apply this rule to suggest we should always drive to 'the left of your lane' rather than 'generally on the left side of the road' your driving, cycling or motorbike riding would be much less safe. You cannot and must not use this rule to restrict your movement within a lane. That would lead to very poor driving or riding, and would create all sorts of problematic issues that were discussed the last time you brought up this very odd interpretation.

Kim_kim

Nessun_Dorma wrote: »

Although I hope she gets what she deserves (there is really no need for that behaviour), there were a couple of places he could have pulled over, to let her pass, especially the point after the first confrontation. It would have de-escalated an already tense situation.

I totally agree, she was very aggressive & should be prosecuted for her threatening behaviour it's also quite clear he was very much on a wind up mission & delebratly road in the middle of the road rather than to the left (as all drivers/riders should).

Also he seemed to be shouting he had to stay a cars width away from parked cars! Really! London would grind to a halt if drivers & riders left a gap of a car to their left, there wouldn't be many roads left that could accommodate two way traffic!

BJV

Bikes on the road frighten me. They always have done. ( Think I have fallen off so many times ha ha ) Always have so I always give them possibly too much room. I am always worried that they will fall just as I am over taking and well ????

I also give loads of room for motorbikes. What gets me is when I am stuck in traffic and a motorbike swerves ( normally very close ) to over take me and then falls into the safe space I have left for the car in front meaning that I have to brake sharply.


I am in no way siding with the anti bike lobby far from it we should all get on our bikes. Health and environmental impact etc.

But I think that it would be a good idea to make sure that all bike users just like car / van drivers are tested to make sure that they understand the rules of the road. From what I have seen some clearly have no idea. ( P.s I have no idea how it could be enforced)

That said god I hope this mad woman is dealt with.

Kim_kim

Keep_pedalling wrote: »

If you think she was bad, you need to see this idiot.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-cambridgeshire-37288210

I accept he's wrong for using the cycle path, but aren't the cyclists wrong for not using their path!

[Deleted User]

Nessun_Dorma wrote: »

Purely from a safety aspect alone, it would have been the best option for them.

Characteristics of the Regular Adult Bicycle User
Kaplan. Federal Highway Administration, US, 1975.
Cycle paths 292 accidents per million cycle miles, against 104 for minor roads and 111 for major roads.

The Risks of Cycling
Pasenen, Helsinki City Planning Department 2001
In Helsinki, using a road-side cycle path is nearly 2.5 times more likely to result in injury than cycling on the carriageway with traffic.

Signalised Intersections Function and Accident Risk for Unprotected Road Users
Linderholm. University of Lund, Sweden, 1984
Cycle tracks are 3.4 times more dangerous than using the road at junctions, rising to 11.9 times when riding against the traffic flow.

Traffic Accidents Involving Cyclists
Berlin Police, Germany, 1987.
Cyclists four times more likely to have accident on roads with cycle paths. Likelihood of serious or fatal injury similarly increased.

Safety of Cycling Children – Effect of the Street Environment
Leden. Technical Research Centre of Finland 1989.
Overall risk of collision is 1.3 crashes/100,000km on a cycle track, but 0.5 crashes/100,000km on the carriageway

Cycle Routes
Harland, Gercans. Transport Research Laboratory, UK, 1993.
No evidence that cycle routes lead to more cycling or improved safety.

Two Decades of the Redway Cycle Paths of Milton Keynes
Franklin. Traffic Engineering & Control, 1999.
Injury accidents on UK's largest purpose-built cycle path network per million km cycled:
Cycle paths 166, local roads 149, main roads 31.

Junctions and Cyclists
Jensen, Andersen, Nielsen. Velo City, Barcelona, 1997.
Cyclists particularly vulnerable at non-signalised junctions where study indicates a nearly fourfold increase in risk. Cycle lanes in Denmark realise accident savings between junctions, but this is more than outweighed by additional accidents at junctions.

Measuring the Safety Effect of Raised Bicycle Crossings
Leden, Gårdner, Pulkkinen. Swedish Transportation Research Board, 1998.
Conventional cycle tracks increase cyclists' risk at junctions.

Toronto Bicycle Commuter Safety Rates
Aultman-Hall, Kaltenecker. Transportation Research Board, 1998.
Injuries 1.8 times more likely on cycle paths than roads and 6 times on footways.

Risk Factors for Bicycle-Motor Vehicle Collisions at Intersections
Wachtel, Lewiston. Institute of Transportation Engineers Journal, USA. September 1994
“Sidewalks or paths adjacent to a roadway are usually not, as non-cyclists expect, safer than the road but much less safe. This conclusion is already well established in existing standards for bikeway design, although in our experience it is not widely known or observed.”
Risk on average 1.8 times greater.

How to Decrease the Number of Bicycle Accidents?
Räsänen, Traffic Safety Committee of Insurance Companies, Finland, 1995.
Study of 234 bicycle crashes in four Finnish cities. 63% of collisions between a cyclist and a motor vehicle took place at cycle track crossings.

Safety Effects of Bicycle Facilities
Wegman, Dijkstra. SWOV Institute for Road Safety Research, Netherlands, 1992.
In built-up areas cycle tracks 25% safer than unsegregated road between junctions, but 32% more dangerous at junctions. Cycle lanes 36% more dangerous between junctions, 19% safer at junctions. Seriousness of accidents greater if tracks or lanes present compared with no facilities.

Safety for Cyclists at Urban Road Junctions
Schnull, Alrutz et al. German Federal Highways Institute Report 262, 1993.
Proportion of junction accidents significantly higher with cycle tracks. HGV conflicts more common with segregation. Without signals, cyclists nearly 5 times more at risk on a cycle track; contrasting surfaces only reduces this to 1.5. With signals, cyclists are 1.7 to 2.7 times more at risk on cycle track, 1.3 times on a cycle lane. At roundabouts cycle tracks increase risk by 30%, cycle lanes by 25%.

Bicycle Paths in Cities - The Safety Effect
Bach, Rosbach, Joergensen. Danish Road Directorate, Denmark, 1988
Cyclist casualties increased 48% following introduction of paths. Bicycle traffic volume did not increase during the study period.

Typical Patterns of Accidents Involving Bicycles and Recommendations for the Safe Design of Bicycle Traffic Facilities
Alrutz, HUK-Verband, Köln, Germany, 1980.
A study of 4,000 accidents in Köln 1976 - 1978. Cycle paths as traditionally built do not guarantee a reduction in casualties. The risk cyclists face depends on how often their unimpeded ride is interrupted.

Report on accidents to cyclists
Transport Advisory Council, Ministry of Transport, UK, 1938.
Cycle tracks increase danger at every road junction. Considers cycle tracks provide safety benefit between junctions but provides no evidence.

Cycle safety
Hass-Klau et al. Environmental & Transport Planning, UK/Germany 1991.
Number of motor vehicles and in particular number of cyclists has much stronger influence on safety than cycle facilities. Some main roads with cycle facilities have higher cycle accident rate than without. Visibility and care crucial; cycle facility may contribute to accidents by making cyclist over-confident. Facilities cause many problems; bad cycle facilities are worse than none.
Peterborough: high accident rate in residential areas casts doubt on independent cycle facilities. York and Oxford: high serious accident rates.

Study of Milton Keynes Cycle Accidents, 1980 - 1990
Ketteridge. Milton Keynes Development Corporation, UK, 1991.
Includes one-month hospital survey which showed 14 cycle path accidents against 1 minor road accident and no major road accidents in equivalent area. All 3 serious accidents were cycle path.

Cycle routes
Harland, Gercans. TRL, UK, 1993.
No evidence that cycle routes lead to more cycling or improved safety.

National trends in cycling and cycle accidents
Morgan. TRL/Institute of Civil Engineers, UK, 1995.
Only 3% of injury accidents on cycle tracks and off-road are recorded.
Cycle facilities not improving use or safety. What we are doing now is either insufficient or just plainly wrong.

Redways and Leisure Routes
Franklin. Milton Keynes Cycle Users Group, UK, 1998.
Redways nearly 7 times more dangerous per mile cycled. 6 deaths to cyclists off-road in 10 years against just one in comparable area on roads.

Two Decades of the Redway Cycle Paths of Milton Keynes
Franklin. Traffic Engineering & Control, 1999.
Injury accidents on UK's largest purpose-built cycle path network per million km cycled:
Cycle paths 166, local roads 149, main roads 31.

Kim_kim

brat wrote: »

Often there's a clue in the name for places you're allowed to use your mode of transport.

You airplane should be used in the air. Motorways are for motor vehicles. Pedestrians on footpaths, submarines under water, etc etc.

I wonder where I should use my road bike?

You should ride your bicycle on the cycle path :-)

[Deleted User]

Kim_kim wrote: »

I accept he's wrong for using the cycle path, but aren't the cyclists wrong for not using their path!

No.

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brat

Kim_kim wrote: »

You should ride your bicycle on the cycle path :-)

It's nice to have a choice