Subject Access Requests on Family Courts - Audio

emilianozapata

onomatopoeia99 wrote: »

You appear lost. The OP mentioned Strasbourg, home of the ECtHR. The ECJ sits in Luxembourg.

Both courts have on occasion dealt with issues arising from personal data.

Nicely put. Thank you. I'll wait a bit, and repost in a clearer format...
as Curtis Mayfield so succinctly put it - threaddys dead.

rpc

You may run into a problem in that you are only entitled to your own personal data, other people's personal data must be protected (unless they consent or it is "reasonable in all the circumstances" to disclose it - principle 6).

While a transcript can be edited/redacted, tapes cannot. On the face of it, it would seem reasonable to deny disclosure of tape recordings to as to protect the other people on the tape. That would suggest that a SAR may well fail.

Same would probably apply to handwritten notes.

Guest101

emilianozapata wrote: »

OMG. no, you are wrong.
As someone who works regularly in liaison with the highest court in the land, I can recommend a guardian anagram solver. blloox.

The wording is critical, which is why I outlined my question rather specifically, it appears you are not the droid I was looking for.

Negotiation:
2.
the action or process of transferring legal ownership of a document.

Ok I'm wrong.


You see a SAR does not transfer legal ownership of a document. As the only information applicable is information held about you. Not any other person or organisation.


The wording is critical, but it's common sense that if you are referring to the legal, rather than common, meaning of a word, you say so.

emilianozapata

rpc wrote: »

You may run into a problem in that you are only entitled to your own personal data, other people's personal data must be protected (unless they consent or it is "reasonable in all the circumstances" to disclose it - principle 6).

While a transcript can be edited/redacted, tapes cannot. On the face of it, it would seem reasonable to deny disclosure of tape recordings to as to protect the other people on the tape. That would suggest that a SAR may well fail.

Same would probably apply to handwritten notes.

Thanks for the response, a good starting point.
Court cases are 'owned' in civil court by those engaged in the proceedings, its why one side will regularly request the other side 'give them' transcripts of hearings that the other side has - a defense of 'no, its got my personal data on' wouldnt be entertained (one would hope - in any case even I am not aware of such a defense). Same with the Judges notes, they are filed with the case record, it has a retrievable code and is part of 'your case' - I noted the example to show how bad things get, people do also regularly get such handwritten notes.

The public exclusion is usually used for things that have not been brought into scope by action. I do see someone could protest though, which is why I see where you are coming from. So far as the pitfalls you raise, I'm not too concerned, what I am really trying to foreclose on is arguments within the Civil Rules - for example while they say in theory a body can get an audio tape, they say they don't like to do this 'to stop misuse' thats a defense, but as with all Court stances, though on the face of it it looks pretty weak, it is a first position, rather than the fallback it should be.

Thanks again.

Guest101

onomatopoeia99 wrote: »

You appear lost. The OP mentioned Strasbourg, home of the ECtHR. The ECJ sits in Luxembourg.

Both courts have on occasion dealt with issues arising from personal data.

Absolutely, I made a mistake. Not infallible.


Though I fail to see where the OPs human rights have been breached, I mean he or she hasn't even made a SAR

Guest101

emilianozapata wrote: »

I am not going to discuss any case, unlike you, I understand the implications of directly referencing events.
contempt of court is as common in the Family Court as breaking a myriad of Civil Rules, and lying in court. The Family Court, in relocation for example, do treat victims of domestic abuse who are prosecuting in criminal proceedings on abuse in a negative way - let me know if you need the judgement templates, actually, I'll let you research, the practice will do you good. Its called in other fields perversion of the course of justice, its a witness intimidation and it breaches EU2012/29
say it aint so.

So far as challenging judgements, you are again incorrect. you have produced a generality.
There are many reasons why a person cannot challenge a judgement, as I am sure you are aware.

Yes because you challenge judgments on areas of law, not on fact.


However my point being, if a material falsehood was included in the judgment, you have that already. You have the document.


I don't understand what you mean about victims prosecuting in criminal courts. Typically victims do not prosecute anyone, that's the job of the CPS (in England and wales), unless they're brought a private prosecution.


Do you mean where one party is subject to criminal proceedings which are yet to be finalised?

athensgeorgia

Can you expand on the type of case it was?

And briefly what you think was omitted/amended in the transcripts?

emilianozapata

Guest101 wrote: »

What do you mean negotiating it?


I'm not sure you're entitled to the tapes. You are entitled to the transcript. Tapes cant be used in court anyway.

Well, they can be, and so can video. So wrong again. As a standard, transcripts are used, by agreement recordings can be used. If there is objection, application can be used. This is getting understandably frustrating.
Hey, maybe we should wait for someone who knows some stuff about stuff to provide an answer or directions to my questions? if the thread has not been completely killed off that is. Which I suspect it has.

emilianozapata

athensgeorgia wrote: »

Can you expand on the type of case it was?

And briefly what you think was omitted/amended in the transcripts?

Hi I am not referencing any specific cases at this point, it would not be appropriate to do so. The principles are the same. I am looking for direction. What is omitted is not material to this (obviously, the omission would need to be serious enough to warrant review, that is all).
What is material is how to leverage omission. How to leverage errors, doubt etc. what arguments can effectively be put forward etc.
Courts will say 'its not appropriate' 'its potential for misuse' 'its not your data' etc

It is people with experience/knowledge of this area I am looking for.

do you have any insight from experience or knowledge regarding people trying to access court audio?

Guest101

emilianozapata wrote: »

Well, they can be, and so can video. So wrong again. As a standard, transcripts are used, by agreement recordings can be used. If there is objection, application can be used. This is getting understandably frustrating.
Hey, maybe we should wait for someone who knows some stuff about stuff to provide an answer or directions to my questions? if the thread has not been completely killed off that is. Which I suspect it has.

I think your thread never took off to be honest.


Courts like paper. It's rare to be able to use audio or video (in civil cases).