Labour want to ignore the will of the people...

kinger101

I suspect it's largely a matter of Smith wanting to put some daylight between him and Corbyn, and appeal to members of the Labour Party who wish to remain in Europe. There's not that much to separate them in terms of policies.

mrginge

wotsthat wrote: »

Well I hope they perceive it as being as close to the status quo as it's possible to be whilst not being an EU member. I assume you hope their perception is somewhat different? What's the harm in taking the time to find out where a consensus may lie?

I believe there is absolutely zero chance of a Norway style deal. I believe we would be better off accepting tariffs, and I also think that the government would take the same view. Jmo of course.

I don't get how your 'finding a consensus' is going to work. are we doing this before negotiating?

Moby

Tigsteroonie wrote: »

How patronising. The idea that if people voted to brexit, they did so without thinking. The same could be said of those who voted to stay.

Let's not start that debate again.

Why? The way we Brexit.... Thesort of deal we get needs to be voted on. As a Labour supporter Im hardly going to accept a deal reached by the Tories loons Fox, Davies and Boris.

Ronaldo_Mconaldo

Moby wrote: »

Why? The way we Brexit.... Thesort of deal we get needs to be voted on. As a Labour supporter Im hardly going to accept a deal reached by the Tories loons Fox, Davies and Boris.

Hard luck, you won't get the chance to disagree.

BobQ

Tigsteroonie wrote: »

How patronising. The idea that if people voted to brexit, they did so without thinking. The same could be said of those who voted to stay.

Let's not start that debate again.

Many of them did.

However, the referendum was about whether to leave or whether to remain. It was not about the alternative ways we can proceed if (and now when) we voted to leave.

I still have no idea what Brexit is going to be like in practice. Do you?

Conrad

Moby wrote: »

Why? The way we Brexit.... Thesort of deal we get needs to be voted on. As a Labour supporter Im hardly going to accept a deal reached by the Tories loons Fox, Davies and Boris.

Ah I see, so we go round and round arguing over different models for years and all the while the EU just patiently wait until we're good n ready?

And if the EU detects fluidity and weakness, this undermines our efforts at the deal making table, and keeps business in limbo for an extended period, mmm, so I do not think Smithy has thought this through.

BobQ

Ronaldo_Mconaldo wrote: »

Could you imagine another referendum on the terms of Brexit? There's thousands of laws and rules and regulations to untangle when we're actually leaving the EU, they're looking to hire hundred of people to crack on with negotiations. So what's going to happen with this new refendum? Is it going to be multiple choice for each rule? Maybe we could have a vote on every rule every day over the next three years that it might take.

We voted 'leave', we changed Prime Minister with 6 weeks of it happening, do people really still think that that the Queen is going to float down and wave a magic wand and say it was all just a bad dream? It's happening.

Teresa May could come back at the start of September and trigger Article 50 and then there may not even be a general election until 2020 by which time Owen Smith won't have any Brexit left to stop, in the highly unlikely even Labour win that election and in the unlikely even thatOwen Smith is their leader at the time.

Good times.

The problem with the proposal is that once triggered Article 50 will see us leave on the terms we either negotiate and agree or those the EU impose after 2 years. It will not matter in two years time what a second referendum determines.

A second referendum would need to follow soon after Article 50. It will not be a multiple choice affair. It will about key options such as:

Should UK trade with the EU in the same way as all other countries?
OR Should UK negotiate a deal that affords us full access to the single market?

Thrugelmir

BobQ wrote: »

those the EU impose after 2 years.

The EU cannot impose. Why would it. Has more to lose than gain.

Conrad

BobQ wrote: »

Many of them did.

However, the referendum was about whether to leave or whether to remain. It was not about the alternative ways we can proceed if (and now when) we voted to leave.

I still have no idea what Brexit is going to be like in practice. Do you?

We voted to leave the EU, make our own laws, represent ourselves in trade deals and implement a border policy of our own making.

Most nations trade with Europe without giving concessions, and several of these export more than we into Europe. Of course a negotiation needs to take place, but the principles are clear and all will be well as we will sculpt reality, we aren't merely agents that have to accept whatever comes our way

Conrad

BobQ wrote: »

The problem with the proposal is that once triggered Article 50 will see us leave on the terms we either negotiate and agree or those the EU impose after 2 years. It will not matter in two years time what a second referendum determines.

A second referendum would need to follow soon after Article 50. It will not be a multiple choice affair. It will about key options such as:

Should UK trade with the EU in the same way as all other countries?
OR Should UK negotiate a deal that affords us full access to the single market?

And if the loosing side once more disputes the result, we go on and on, a neverendum which business, the Eu and the British people will not tolerate.

Trust me, we're leaving no matter how much the sore looser arrogant liberal class bleats