Brexiters should be 'Ashamed of the harm to come"

CLAPTON

cells wrote: »

The fall in the £ and high inflation would be fine, maybe even good, if it resulted in wage inflation but if its just going to be cost inflation thats just going to make us all poorer

whilst it is true that price rises due to devaluation and higher import prices make us poorer
do you not accept that the large trade deficit made the devaluation inevitable even if it was likely to be delayed a year or so
and that funding our standard of living by foreign borrowing and selling UK businesses was inevitable going to lead to a period of higher prices and of us being 'poorer'.

Conrad

cells wrote: »

The fall in the £ and high inflation would be fine, maybe even good, if it resulted in wage inflation but if its just going to be cost inflation thats just going to make us all poorer



consumers benefit from lower prices. An example is textiles and clothing now much much cheaper than 20 years ago. The money not spent on paying £30 but paying £10 for the cloths can be spent on artisan cheese from tigers milked by goats that you propose will power us to new heights




what cheap labuor?


.

Better jobs and wages through rebalancing away from imports and consumption, that's the point!


A flowering of local enterprise will result from suppliers turning to domestic production.


Service costs are largely not impacted by rising cost of imports. That massive sector can sell services abroad that are now some 15% more competitive.


What cheap labour? Lol, cannot believe you keep denying a great swathe of folk have not enjoyed the fruits of the economy, that's why we need a new model built on exports (of services and goods), an industrial policy and a nimble global economy.

Out,_Vile_Jelly

ruggedtoast wrote: »

Thanks Brexitards,

Imagine the hysterical shrieking from lefties on Twitter if a tory or right wing commentator had used "retard" in an insult.

cells

CLAPTON wrote: »

whilst it is true that price rises due to devaluation and higher import prices make us poorer
do you not accept that the large trade deficit made the devaluation inevitable even if it was likely to be delayed a year or so
and that funding our standard of living by foreign borrowing and selling UK businesses was inevitable going to lead to a period of higher prices and of us being 'poorer'.

I dont know enough to comment with strength on the topic however my gut feel is that running a trade deficit is not that big an issue.

I feel that selling expensive London homes to rich foreigners is both long term sustainable and a great virtual export. Likewise teaching and training foreign students who had over £150k for 4 years of living and learning at a London university seems quite a good deal to me. Likewise rich foreigners coming to London and bringing their capital to live and spend here is a good thing (I read somewhere London is the divorce capital of the world for the rich so a woman walking away with £500m from her Russian oligarch she is very very welcome to come and live here in London I think thats a great advantage to us much better than digging £500m of coal out the ground thats for sure)


PS what percent does the foreign 'aid' package and the EU contributions cover of the trade imbalance. PS2 is it not somewhat ironic that the poor will be hit by the higher import costs while the rich will benefit from higher £pound£ returns and dividends on their foreign investments.

wotsthat

CLAPTON wrote: »

Remain supporters were not told that the large trade deficit would inevitably lead to devaluation and a lower pound.

The only inevitability of a trade deficit is it'll have to balance so we can eventually pay for our imports. Yes, economists point out trade deficits are associated with currency effects but I thought we didn't listen to them anymore.

A devalued currency forces people to import less/ make exports more attractive. Buying less imports by choice (a patriotic duty) and exporting more (using available productivity gains) would have the same effect and you'd be guessing what the effect on currency would be.

The certainty of your position is very important to you but you don't know the trade deficit wasn't already priced into Sterling on 23rd June and the devaluation since then is a pricing in of economic damage. If anyone else suggests Sterling is too high/ low you tend to ask 'what is the correct price?'

CLAPTON wrote: »

They were NOT told that current standard of living was based on massive foreign borrowings and selling off our best industries and businesses.

They aren't 'our' assets. Anyway I believe in the benefits of trade so any deal to sell an asset would usually be beneficial to both parties. It must be a good thing because there's currently a big sale on.

I think the UK is doing OK but uncertainty is the cause of many of these effects. The irony is by the time we get to the other side much more of 'our' business and industry will be in the hands of foreigners. That's Brexit - whatever happens must be a good thing.

CLAPTON wrote: »

It is however, true, that people would wish harm to brexit will lie and mislead to distract people from the true economic facts.

It doesn't need lies and scheming. There's a relationship between the vote to leave and higher consumer costs. Most people will go for Brexit = higher prices rather than worrying about the intricacies of the price mechanism.

If people think they've been sold a pup they might seek to affect policy. People who have a different view to you get a say - doesn't much matter whether you think they're wrong or right.

cells

Conrad wrote: »

Better jobs and wages through rebalancing away from imports and consumption, that's the point!

this is contradictory, you say the lower pound will enable us to export more things but then you say better wages. If wages are going to be better why do you expect more imports due to the lower pound?


More importantly can you list the 1 million or so current jobs you want to end and the 1 million or so new jobs you expect to power us to more exports?

cells

you make me cringe with some of your posts, a bit like how when they ask miss universe contestants basic questions. eg about evolution, the words and sentences they string together sound ok probably to a lot of people but of course if you actually listen to what they are saying in 90% of the cases they are talking total crap (not even understanding or answering the question). Nimble Global Economy....yeh....miss universe conrad.

Conrad wrote: »

What cheap labour? Lol, cannot believe you keep denying a great swathe of folk have not enjoyed the fruits of the economy, that's why we need a new model built on exports (of services and goods), an industrial policy and a nimble global economy.

You are mad we live in a country with 1% unemployment with full time wages in the region of £35k a year

some people do a lot better than others for lots of reasons and this would be true in any system you can imagine. Those born to abusive parents are not likely to do well compared to those born to good parents and who receive a few million in gifts and inheritances. This is true now, it will be true if we become a tiger milking cows selling specialist brewd ice cream

The UK is a fantastic country with lots of opportunity and great institutions and a great economy. The people who feel they have missed out did not 'miss out' due to the structure of the economy or the possibilities it offers.

Conrad

cells wrote: »

this is contradictory, you say the lower pound will enable us to export more things but then you say better wages. If wages are going to be better why do you expect more imports due to the lower pound?

How many more times, we are moving away from the unsustainable imports and consumption model, to a more sustainable balanced landscape, selling value added services and goods to the world that produces better jobs.

Conrad

cells wrote: »

you make me cringe with some of your posts, a bit like how when they ask miss universe contestants basic questions. eg about evolution, the words and sentences they string together sound ok probably to a lot of people but of course if you actually listen to what they are saying in 90% of the cases they are talking total crap (not even understanding or answering the question). Nimble Global Economy....yeh....miss universe conrad.

I'll take your airhead model and raise you a flat earther, terrified of change, unable to compute why that change was needed.


In the near future you will come to slowly understand what this change was all about, and hopefully have a light bulb encounter


Everyone from Corbyn to Livingstone, Hammond to Boris recognises our economy was totally unbalanced and dangerously unhealthy, reliant on mass consumption of imports, and vast debt to fuel it.


Carry on in la la land, enjoy

wotsthat

kabayiri wrote: »

Maybe people need a wake up call.

Maybe but that's not what they'll be getting. Right or wrong many leavers are going to blame Brexit with higher prices. They won't be carrying out economic research to determine if that blame is fairly placed.

kabayiri wrote: »

In other discussions we complain about the obesity crisis, and point to people filling up their shopping trolleys with processed rubbish.

Yes but it's a bit rich to equate Brexit, in any way, with a cure for the obesity crisis.

kabayiri wrote: »

I look at the really poor in Africa who don't even get to choose the quality of their water, and realise we don't have it that bad.

Same here. We not only don't have it bad we have it great.

Need to get real about human nature though. Not many people looking at an extra £20 to fill their nice cars with fuel thank their lucky stars they're not African.

Not how headline writers work either. They need to offer up blame figures.