An Evening With... Jeremy Corbyn

TrickyTree83

TLDR: rugged and Corbyn are both communists.

@ruggedtoast : Have you ever been to a former communist country to see the effects of your proposals in reality? Sure everyone had a rabbit hutch to live in and bread to eat (well most of the time anyway), but everyone was destitute. Mend and make do was the way of life. Unless you were more equal than others, like generals, party members/business owners.

ruggedtoast wrote: »

It might help you to cease thinking that your own personal story applies to every other person on the planet.

If hard work and ingenuity were rewarded financially then every woman in Africa would be a millionaire. (George Montbiot).

By the way do you not see any irony whatsoever in what you state your parents circumstances were and how you developed your own lofty position of superiority over normal persons?

No irony at all since they instilled in me as a child and throughout my later life also that to get anywhere in life you need to apply yourself.

Why would it be ironic? Please explain. Because from my perspective we live in a fantastic country where opportunity is indeed there for all those who wish to take it. The key part being, you need to want to take it.

If hard work and ingenuity were rewarded financially then every woman in Africa would be a millionaire. (George Montbiot).

Hard work on its own, as I previously stated, isn't enough. My mother works tremendously hard cleaning apartments of the elderly. If she took a course which gave her a skill set that was in demand she could change jobs and earn more, freeing up a cleaning job for someone who wants one. The individual has to want to change their own life. She's quite happy where she is, they lived within their means for 40+ years. They wanted their children (me) to have a better lot in life so instilled in me the aspiration to achieve that through education and hard work. For example I had to work in a minimum wage job for years to save up the cash I needed to pay off student debts and go on a course I needed to make myself more attractive to employers.

In what way are opportunities like this limited for others from the same background?

It's not, you've just bought into this socialist idea without thinking it through. The solution to the ills of society is to swing the other way and promote individual responsibility. Responsibility for your kids, for your actions, for you finances, for walking down a pavement (claim culture!), for your diet, for your habits, for your education, everything. Having a nanny state, a massive welfare state and a culture of entitlement will eventually ruin the very society you claim to want to protect.

I think the welfare state should exist, but at the moment it's far too much to the left. Corbyn wants to take it further to the left. The Conservatives want to move it to the right.

Lets look after the sick and the disabled, lets look after those who fall on hard times. But lets not pretend that opportunity doesn't exist for people in poverty - because it does. And lets not pretend that everyone is equal, when they clearly are not. I'm absolute rubbish at playing the saxophone, but I'm good at coding. Similarly some people aren't cut out for university and you end up wasting their time and taxpayers money when they would have been better off learning a trade. The abolition of grammar schools where you could achieve a better education based on merit was a better solution than the current one size fits all system. We should celebrate aptitude rather than relegate it to the same level as everyone else because it is politically correct at the time to do so.

The left is messing society up with these ideas and screaming about claiming the moral high ground. When will it end? When everyone is destitute? When you've taxed all wealth out of existence?

Herzlos

bobbymotors wrote: »

utter nonsense.
'you can't cut your way to prosperity'
Actually its the ONLY way to increase your wealth.
If you make £500 a week and spend £550,you will eventually go skint
if you do the above but only spend £450,then in a year you will have £2500 which you can use to further increase your prosperity by buying a nicer car etc.

It's not as simple as that, because you're not talking about a single income.

The key to boosting the economy is to get people spending money and having that money flow. The easiest way to stop that happening is with austerity.

Any jobs or benefits you cut, are going to take money directly out of the economy, because the people affect don't have the money, some may even need to draw more money out via benefits. People also tend to be more careful with money when there's uncertainty, so again, austerity measures make people stop spending money.

One way to counter that is to make saving pointless - if you're only getting 0.25% on your savings, you may as well just spend them or invest in something else like property.

The best way to get out of a recession is to try and actively boost the economy by creating projects and jobs and cash flow.

mwpt

ruggedtoast wrote: »

Jeremy Corbyn on Education:

Crazy having schools competing against one another as academies, should be working together. University education is vital and enriches society. Free for all.

Where do we get the £10 billion per year to pay for this?

He then gave up on this when the front of the stage was deluged with people waving things and photographers crowding round. A glimpse into the fact that he perhaps still doesn't fully understand how much excitement he engenders.

Yes. When I get offered completely free stuff I get excited too.

mwpt

Herzlos wrote: »

It's not as simple as that, because you're not talking about a single income.
...
The best way to get out of a recession is to try and actively boost the economy by creating projects and jobs and cash flow.

It's not as simple as that. If it was, some government would have perfected the idea and would never lose power again and we'd all be copying them.

How many times do I have to say, austerity is not a choice. It is either a controlled reduction in spending or a forced reduction in spending.

Venezuela tried the anti-austerity route.

cells

Herzlos wrote: »

It's not as simple as that, because you're not talking about a single income.

The key to boosting the economy is to get people spending money and having that money flow. The easiest way to stop that happening is with austerity.

Any jobs or benefits you cut, are going to take money directly out of the economy, because the people affect don't have the money, some may even need to draw more money out via benefits. People also tend to be more careful with money when there's uncertainty, so again, austerity measures make people stop spending money.

One way to counter that is to make saving pointless - if you're only getting 0.25% on your savings, you may as well just spend them or invest in something else like property.

The best way to get out of a recession is to try and actively boost the economy by creating projects and jobs and cash flow.

with long term unemployment at 1% who is going to do these jobs and projects on top of what we already do?

Thrugelmir

ruggedtoast wrote: »

He then gave up on this when the front of the stage was deluged with people waving things and photographers crowding round. A glimpse into the fact that he perhaps still doesn't fully understand how much excitement he engenders.

Speaking to a 1,000 people must be quite an event. After years of no one taking any notice of him.

Still waiting for real substance. Words are cheap. Promises need to be costed.

westernpromise

When he takes the railways back into public ownership will the shareholders be compensated, or will they just be robbed by the state?

cells

westernpromise wrote: »

When he takes the railways back into public ownership will the shareholders be compensated, or will they just be robbed by the state?

where I a large owner of shares in intercity railways I would quite look forward to a buyout from corbyn at a small margin about the recent past share price.

Most of the intercity railways will struggle past 2030 as the self drive minibus/taxi takes away more and more market share making them even less viable than they currently are. longer term the intercity rail-lines will either be abandoned or converted to roads.

There will be some residual value in that the stations sit on prime land that can be redeveloped as homes or offices.

bobbymotors

Oh dear....

No one who is opposed to austerity (otherwise known as 'living within your means') can ever answer it:

Where is the money going to come from?

It is a simple fact of life...never ever borrow money to buy a depreciating asset. So...get a mortgage, avoid HP, don't buy holidays on your credit card, if you run out of money on saturday and don't get paid till monday? - stay in.

So, can anyone tell me the answer? Where's the money coming from?

Rinoa

Corbyn v Smith leadership debate Live

http://order-order.com/#_@/iYROgxb53xlclg