An Evening With... Jeremy Corbyn

cells

ruggedtoast wrote: »

Of course you can. Because you're a confirmed Tory voter who can't even begin to understand why socialist politics exists.

Maybe take a walk outside the Home Counties bubble and you might start to understand.

Some people have more to worry about than Camilla's pony riding instructor having gone off sick.

The problem the left have is in not realising the scale of the wealth of the uk and its people. So they are perplexed why the center right party wins elections when their world view is that they and everyone they know is 'poor'

Half the adult male full time working population is on £37k or higher income and women not far behind and they have aspirations for more. more than half own their own homes.

the higher rate tax band kicks in at £43k which is not far behind the £37k

So how are you going to convince this group to vote for higher taxes taxes that they will have to pay? The not so insignificant half who earn from £37k to £37m and have aspirations for more?

Filo25

seven-day-weekend wrote: »

I know you were not referring to me.

However, I have become a Tory voter over the years, from a working class family and have never lived anywhere near the Home Counties.

This IS like the difference between the Judean Peoples' Front and The Peoples' Front of Judea. I said this several weeks ago in another thread.

If you think Corbyn and his ilk care about ordinary people, think again. For a start they do not care about me or other Tory voters. He published a reader's letter in a magazine where he was part of the editorial team, after the Brighton Bombings (from the Telegraph):

The editorial board of a hard-Left magazine, of which Mr Corbyn was a member, wrote an article praising the Brighton bombing. In its article on the IRA attack, which almost wiped out Margaret Thatcher’s Cabinet, the editorial board of London Labour Briefing said the atrocity showed that “the British only sit up and take notice [of Ireland] when they are bombed into it.”
According to an authoritative parliamentary reference work, Mr Corbyn was general secretary of the editorial board. He wrote the front-page story in the same issue of Briefing.
The same edition of Briefing, for December 1984, carried a reader’s letter praising the “audacity” of the IRA attack and stating: “What do you call four dead Tories? A start.”

In the same edition of the magazine, another reader's letter referred to Norman Tebbit, who was dug out of the rubble, and said 'Now get on yer bike'.

Not nice people at all.

Yeah but Corbyn, McDonnell and friends were only doing and saying these things because they were working so hard to find a peaceful settlement in Northern Ireland ...... honest.

ruggedtoast

cells wrote: »

The problem the left have is in not realising the scale of the wealth of the uk and its people. So they are perplexed why the center right party wins elections when their world view is that they and everyone they know is 'poor'

Half the adult male full time working population is on £37k or higher income and women not far behind and they have aspirations for more. more than half own their own homes.

the higher rate tax band kicks in at £43k which is not far behind the £37k

So how are you going to convince this group to vote for higher taxes taxes that they will have to pay? The not so insignificant half who earn from £37k to £37m and have aspirations for more?

The problem many Tory voters have is that they don't understand the scale to which they are being duped.

50% of the UK's private wealth is owned by 10% of people

Over 30% of all rural land in the UK is still owned by 0.6% of people who are all hereditary aristocrats.

The U.K. is now measured as being one of the most unequal and socially immobile countries in the entire world.

The Right is failing almost everyone who works for a living rather than receiving a hand out and a leg up from their rich parents.

The biggest failure of Milliband's campaign was his inability to reach people like the Question Time nail bar woman. Low income working class people who work in the low wage economy and rely on state top up benefits. People that the Tories repeatedly and conspicuously treat with complete and utter contempt. And who were blatantly lied to.

The second biggest failure was to reach the lower and middle earners. (£37k gross is not a lot of money these days), and convince them that the Tories somehow see them as anything other than a bunch of compliant serfs who will literally work themselves to death in the desperate pursuit of maintaining some ersatz middle class label.

By and large the Tories achieved all this using propaganda. How many media barons are Tory donors? How many elected British Prime Ministers have grovelled to that loathsome oligarch, Murdoch?

This is why the Corbynite movement is abandoning the MSM to reach people through social media and direct action.

And it's working too.

seven-day-weekend

ruggedtoast wrote: »

.....

50% of the UK's private wealth is owned by 10% of people Why does this matter?

Over 30% of all rural land in the UK is still owned by 0.6% of people who are all hereditary aristocrats. ditto

.......

....and if we should do anything about it, what should it be?

westernpromise

ruggedtoast wrote: »

This is why the Corbynite movement is abandoning the MSM to reach people through social media and direct action.

And it's working too.

After the lies Labour told to get us to go to war, the idea that somebody else is a big bad liar is, well, risible.

Socialism makes people poorer, not richer, which is why Labour is crashing in the polls.

westernpromise

seven-day-weekend wrote: »

....and if we should do anything about it, what should it be?

I guess you should vote for a party that will steal their property off them, because the state has more right to it than the owners do.

Malthusian

ruggedtoast wrote: »

Over 30% of all rural land in the UK is still owned by 0.6% of people who are all hereditary aristocrats.

They're welcome to it. What the hell would I want with rural land? Farming is a miserable existence and we're not allowed to build on it.

Filo25

ruggedtoast wrote: »

This is why the Corbynite movement is abandoning the MSM to reach people through social media and direct action.

And it's working too.

It's working in attracting those with similar views into the Labour party where they can takeover and control the direction of the party.

It's not working in the sense that contrary to the beliefs of any Corbynite I have ever spoken to, that is not a popular direction to take the party in as far as the actual voting public are concerned.

As badly as Labour are polling at the moment, Corbyn is polling even more poorly, a lot of Labour voters aren't convinced he would be a better PM than May, which is a pretty shambolic state of affairs.

From Yougov last week

GE voting intention
Conservatives 38
Labour 31

Who would make the best PM
May 52
Corbyn 18

ruggedtoast

westernpromise wrote: »

I guess you should vote for a party that will steal their property off them, because the state has more right to it than the owners do.

No one owns anything. Ownership is a human construct that exists only in your head.

Ownership is negotiated by the consent of the majority of people who do not own what you own allowing you to continue keeping it.

History teaches us that there comes a point where inequality becomes so unbalanced that it enters taking the pi$$ territory.

Then things get moved around, and the 'owners' have only themselves to blame.

setmefree2

Moby wrote: »

Went to the local Labour Party meeting on Thursday to choose the candidate that the meeting will support. Very different atmosphere to the usual meeting. There were loads of new members, many of them only too happy to tell us how things needed to change etc. Of course Corbyn won the vote and the new members took great pleasure in cheering in my face because they knew I supported Smith. The hate in their eyes and triumphalism was something I'd not actually seen from Tory opponents. The Chair of the Party welcomed them all and said its great to see all our new members and how excited they are and we look forward to seeing exactly the same numbers trudging the streets of the constituency door knocking during the next Election campaign! I think his irony was lost on them. Comrades who dared to speak against Corbyn were shouted down and called red tories/ Blairites. When it was pointed out to them that we'll have an MP having to go into an election canvassing for a leader she has no faith in, they said we'll deselect her! Remember this is a hard fought Labour/Tory marginal with a 1K majority. Most of these new members didn't even know that!

Militant tactics from the 80s according to Watson.

Watson said he had been “reliably informed” that some members of Momentum were consciously adopting the tactics used by Militant in the 1980s, including tips for infiltrating local constituency Labour parties published in Michael Crick’s history of the movement.
The advice, which Watson reproduced in full in his letter to Corbyn, includes suggestions such as: “Make the event adversarial. Uncomradely questions to sitting councillors and the MP, challenging the chair’s method and motive, defining the politics of the speaker before they have defined their own. This behaviour basically reduces the attendance of the remaining sensible types. Then the meeting [is] ours to control.”

http://www.theguardian.com/politics/2016/aug/10/tom-watson-sends-corbyn-proof-of-trotskyist-labour-infiltration