Who would be a millenial?

mwpt

mwpt wrote: »

So what you're saying is that we made a decision to alter the course of our country and everyone's lives because people got their backs up?

CKhalvashi wrote: »

I don't think that was the point being made at all.

Actually it is the message that I get on here a lot so I'll disagree with that.

It is quite a normal human reaction to being told what to do if it goes against their first instinct. Dig in deeper and suddenly any attempts at reason are pointless. Ask my partner!

But I agree with your other views that the remain campaign should have used the positive message a lot more. I disagree with others that they didn't use it at all (they did). Perhaps the best strategy would have to not become engaged in the emotional war against the leave campaign that they were never going to win. All the messages from leave campaign were designed to pull on heart strings. There wasn't really a good way to mitigate that, except perhaps to ignore it completely.

TrickyTree83

mwpt wrote: »

Actually it is the message that I get on here a lot so I'll disagree with that.

It is quite a normal human reaction to being told what to do if it goes against their first instinct. Dig in deeper and suddenly any attempts at reason are pointless. Ask my partner!

But I agree with your other views that the remain campaign should have used the positive message a lot more. I disagree with others that they didn't use it at all (they did). Perhaps the best strategy would have to not become engaged in the emotional war against the leave campaign that they were never going to win. All the messages from leave campaign were designed to pull on heart strings. There wasn't really a good way to mitigate that, except perhaps to ignore it completely.

Well as a leave voter I didn't really take any heed of the leave campaign. I listened to Daniel Hannan and felt I aligned most closely with his views than those of the offical or un-official leave campaigns.

So as one person who voted leave didn't really follow either of these campaigns it's surely possible that there are others like me too?

There are many shades of grey on both side of the vote, it's not a binary issue despite the option given to the people being a binary option.

stator

Generali wrote: »

Not the ones I know.

HMRC produces statistics on this that contradict your point. I've posted links here many times before and frankly I'm bored of arguing with people that are envious of people that are more successful than they.

Reconcile yourself that both failure and ill-fortune/health are bailed out by the rich via the welfare system. You aren't paying the bill so you should be thankful I guess.

If you are rich enough to be a net payer then again, perhaps you should be grateful for your fortunate position in society.

You make a ridiculous amount of assumptions.

N1AK

stator wrote: »

The article didn't even mention student debt, which is a lifetime paying a tax rate that is 9 percentage points higher than the older people who got a free education.

The fact that people leaving university now can expect to pay nearly 3/4 of any additional salary their employer pays to them in 'tax' once they reach £43K highlights just how heavily moderate earners are hit these days for tax. The entirely blatant way the Tory's have decided to focus on helping their core voters (rich elderly) at the expense of the working poor and young has turned me from someone who voted for them in previous elections to someone who will not for some time because I don't trust them not to do it again.

Even someone earning at the 20% tax rate is losing over half of what their employer pays in tax, national insurance and student loan repayments.

N1AK

CKhalvashi wrote: »

I did campaign for the remain side, the reasons for that you've probably worked out, but the biggest thing that probably was missed out was the ease of trade across international borders, especially for SMEs.

I'm not persuaded that a case based on the ease of international trade would have been remotely effective at swaying the core brexit voting demographics.

Sadly in the case of this referendum I think this is an example of too many people not appreciating what they've got until it's gone. How do you explain to someone living on a low wage and struggling to get enough hours work what the benefit to them of EU membership are in a way that seems relevant (other than saying they'll be worse off due to the economic damage)?

CLAPTON

N1AK wrote: »

The fact that people leaving university now can expect to pay nearly 3/4 of any additional salary their employer pays to them in 'tax' once they reach £43K highlights just how heavily moderate earners are hit these days for tax. The entirely blatant way the Tory's have decided to focus on helping their core voters (rich elderly) at the expense of the working poor and young has turned me from someone who voted for them in previous elections to someone who will not for some time because I don't trust them not to do it again.

Even someone earning at the 20% tax rate is losing over half of what their employer pays in tax, national insurance and student loan repayments.

the marginal (not average) rate of deduction for a graduate being paid over 43,000 is
40% tax plus 2% NI plus 9% student loan so 51%
for some-one earning less then the marginal rate will be
20% tax plus 12% NI plus 9% SLC i.e. 41%