BREXIT price rises

CLAPTON

Generali wrote: »

:rotfl::T:rotfl:

Congratulations. The European Court of Human Rights and the EU have no connection and leaving the EU doesn't stop the European Court of Human Rights having primacy over UK law as has been the case since Mr Blair gave the European Court of Human Rights primacy over some UK laws.

An acquaintance of my mother voted leave because that way she could buy petrol in gallons. If you voted leave so you could get rid of the European Court of Human Rights then you are barking up the same street. Congratulations on your Pyrrhic victory.

I'm nor sure what the ECtHR has to do with the price of toilet paper.
Maybe ignorance and bigotry is a family trait?

Kohoutek

CLAPTON wrote: »

-the ability to restrict EU doctors /nurses working the the UK who have inadequate language knowledge

The NHS does that already.

CLAPTON wrote: »

the ability to restrict EU criminals from entering the UK

We already have that ability.

CLAPTON wrote: »

-the ability to kick out EU criminals from the UK

We can already do that; Cameron negotiated concessions to broaden the scope of that, but that deal is now gone because of the referendum.

CLAPTON wrote: »

-the extra costs of the mandatory EU import duties

-the extra costs of the mandatory EU non tariff barriers

- the massive costs of the extra infrastructure we need to build to cater for the millions of migrants

- the overcrowding, delays extra cost of the massive infrastructure overcrowding.

- the massive hidden costs we pay due to the regulation on businesses

Do all these 'massive costs' you're talking about outweigh the benefits accrued from being in the EU or not?

CLAPTON wrote: »

-the huge problems we were building up with a large trade deficit : fortunately the brexit vote has led to the value of the pound falling so this should help the inevitable correction.

The UK's trade deficit is the fault of the EU? Is anything not the fault of the EU in your world?

Kohoutek

Generali wrote: »

An acquaintance of my mother voted leave because that way she could buy petrol in gallons.

I heard through acquaintance of family about a person who voted leave because she thought it would increase her benefits and another one who voted leave to get more stamps on her passport.

Tromking

Generali wrote: »

In the same way you get rid of the Government of the UK or your local council, you either put pressure on your existing representatives to behave in a way that is more to your liking or you vote differently and hope to persuade others to do the same. Or, more likely, moan about it down the pub and find a bunch of people that have a vague feeling of being put upon that they CBA to do anything about until one day they get a once in a generation chance to vote to kick over the statues.

That's where the fun begins of course.

Did you try to influence the UK's place in the EU in any way at all over the last 40 years? If so it would be great if you could share.

You can't help yourself can you?
Someone points out reasonably why the EU system of governance is not to their taste and you reply with that dismissive load of old waffle.
Do one!

CLAPTON

Kohoutek wrote: »

The UK's trade deficit is the fault of the EU?

no the large trade deficit is created by many factors.
However, one significant factor is that a larger population requires more essential imports of food, fuel etc which is not counterbalanced by extra exports created by the immigrants.

Is anything not the fault of the EU in your world?

anyone that asks such a silly question, it probably not intelligent enough to understand the answer.

mwpt

Tromking wrote: »

You can't help yourself can you?
Someone points out reasonably why the EU system of governance is not to their taste and you reply with that dismissive load of old waffle.
Do one!

I didn't see anything unreasonable in his post. It seems a fairly accurate statement, and an interesting question. If you were very concerned about the lack of democracy or unaccountable laws the EU were introducing, did you look into or actively do anything about that? It seems the options Generali presented would have been valid.

My guess is that 99+% of people who voted leave on those grounds were stirred by emotion than any real practical impact. For me, I based it on my daily life inside the EU being pretty good and didn't see a need for a different type of democracy that I could still not really influence or change.

But of course, if the answer is what I actually suspect, that it was really all about immigration, then voting out of the EU was the logical choice.

CLAPTON

mwpt wrote: »

.


My guess is that 99+% of people who voted leave on those grounds were stirred by emotion than any real practical impact. For me, I based it on my daily life inside the EU being pretty good and didn't see a need for a different type of democracy that I could still not really influence or change.

so basically your wish to stay in the EU is 100% emotional based on lack of understanding of how we are governed.

Tromking

mwpt wrote: »

I didn't see anything unreasonable in his post. It seems a fairly accurate statement, and an interesting question. If you were very concerned about the lack of democracy or unaccountable laws the EU were introducing, did you look into or actively do anything about that? It seems the options Generali presented would have been valid.

My guess is that 99+% of people who voted leave on those grounds were stirred by emotion than any real practical impact. For me, I based it on my daily life inside the EU being pretty good and didn't see a need for a different type of democracy that I could still not really influence or change.

But of course, if the answer is what I actually suspect, that it was really all about immigration, then voting out of the EU was the logical choice.

You don't see his post as unreasonable as it chimes in with your own biased narrative
on the referendum I'm guessing.
I was given a vote and chose to base my decision to leave on the democracy deficit of the EU and you I assume chose to remain for other reasons, one of which in my view was a willingness to compromise on democratic accountability for a general feeling of wellbeing that being part of the EU affords.
Couldn't give a stuff about immigration.

kinger101

Generali wrote: »

I find it funny that people in a country with an unelected Head of State, a Government elected by little more than a third of the people that voted and a parliament in which you can win 1/8th of the vote and get 1/650th of the seats complain about the EU being undemocratic!

Does it really matter who gets to wear the shiny hat with rocks in? The Queen's role is ceremonial.

But if you probe the structure of the European Council, you'll find Malta gets 3 votes for about 400,000 people whereas Germany gets 29 for 80 million. Thus Malta's votes carry 20-fold more weighting than Germany's.

The Council's members of course are made up of the nationally elected leaders of the member states, so any criticism you levy on the deficit in the UK's or other member's process for selecting that leader is also reflected in the EU. By definition, the members of the council cannot have any more democratic legitimacy than the national system which put them there.

As for the Commission, appointed is appointed, not elected. But there's no weighting here as I understand it based on the population sizes. Each country gets one Commissioner.

Really, the power should have been vested in a smaller democratic European Parliament, with a second chamber aimed a protecting national interests from being steamrollered by the larger members. It would have slowed the EU down, which isn't a bad thing considering what's happened to many of the weaker nations in the Euro.

Generali

Tromking wrote: »

You can't help yourself can you?
Someone points out reasonably why the EU system of governance is not to their taste and you reply with that dismissive load of old waffle.
Do one!

I can't help myself with what? I'm not sure what I did wrong here.

I presented an alternate point of view to you. Is that such a bad thing?

When you say "Do one" do you mean "eff off" by any chance?