BREXIT price rises

chaostheory

HAMISH_MCTAVISH wrote: »

The Commissioners are appointed by, and can be recalled by, the democratically elected governments.

The unelected Commissioners initiate all legislation. That is - all the legislation that effects us. And how do we(the voter) get to vote them out if we don't like what that legislation is? We can't.

It's worse than not democratic - because it allows politicians to appoint commissioners to do s!!t (like free movement) and then the politicians can just blame the commissioners and say they have no control over "it" - whatever "it" is.They are all circumventing the democratic process.

As every year passes they take more and more powers away from elected governments and give those powers to the unelected commissioners - who we can't vote out. It sucks.

PS When the British EU commissioner Jonathan Hill resigned after Brexit - who even knew who he was or what he stood for? This is who he is

Jonathan Hopkin Hill, Baron Hill of Oareford CBE PC (born 24 July 1960) is a British Conservative politician and former European Commissioner for Financial Stability, Financial Services and Capital Markets Union.

He is responsible for creating legislation but I never got to vote for him and I don't get to kick him out.

chaostheory

HAMISH_MCTAVISH wrote: »

The MEP's are elected directly and more democratically (via PR) than our own MP's via FPTP..

But they can't initiate legislation. Which is why nobody cares about MEP elections. MEPs basically do nothing. As I said above creating legislation can only be done by unelected commissioners - so who cares if he MEPs are voted for via PR rather than FPTP.

chaostheory

I'm not sure I agree with all of this but it illustrates how the EU Commission leaves itself open to criticism

The Undemocratic EU Explained - It Will Never Change

The EU’s law-making process is fundamentally undemocratic. Power is vested in the unelected and unaccountable elite who make laws - in secret - to preserve the status of large multinationals at the expense of small and medium-sized enterprises (SMEs). Multinationals achieve their preferential status by spending enormous sums of money on lobbying. They create a complicated regulatory framework, which only large companies with their Human Resources departments can comply with. This drives small competitors out of business, destroys competition and encourages monopolies, forcing the consumer to pay a higher price for poorer quality goods and services.

The Commission is made up of 28 unelected commissioners, who cannot be held to account. Each commissioner has a specific policy area in which to create laws. The Commission has a President (currently Jean-Claude Juncker); unlike the other 27 commissioners he is personally elected by the European Parliament, however his was the only name on the ballot paper, not exactly democratic. The Commission is advised by the Directorate General, which along with the Commission is heavily lobbied. Once the Commission proposes an EU law, this proposal is taken to the Parliament.

Secondly, the Parliament is made up of 751 MEPs who are elected by the people in EU Member States every five years in elections. National parties arrange themselves into European groups of similar parties throughout Europe. It also has a President (currently Martin Schulz) who was voted in by the Parliament, but once again he was the only candidate. Theoretically, the Parliament has the ability to remove the Commission; however the Parliament has never successfully been able to remove it - even when the Commission has been full of corrupt cronies. The Parliament didn’t even remove the commission of 2004 to 2009 which was full of questionable characters. This Commission included Siim Kallas the Anti-Fraud Commissioner who was given this role despite being charged with fraud, abuse of power and providing false information after £4.4million disappeared while he was head of Estonia’s national bank.

This is not a Parliament in any real sense, as they have no right to propose laws. Instead it is a façade, created to make the EU look democratic, rather than give the public a choice over those who makes their laws. The Parliament does vote and can make amendments on laws proposed by the Commission, but the Commission must accept any of the amendments proposed for the changes to become effective, showing where the power lies.

Additionally, once something becomes an EU law, the Parliament has no ability to propose a change to this law. All the power is given to the Commission. It is clear the public’s elected representatives do not matter in the EU. It’s a ‘club’ to push through laws which would be rejected by national Parliaments.

http://www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/matthew-ellery/eu-referendum_b_9514608.html

posh*spice

undetterred wrote: »

Don't forget Reno man also.

Joeskeppi too ?

System

Leave me out of your bickering.

Graham_Devon

HAMISH_MCTAVISH wrote: »

Nonsense.

The Brexit camp spent months denying all the negative consequences even existed, and denied there would even be a recession, let alone that half a million or more would lose their jobs as current forecasts suggest.

I don't know what world you were living in.

But may I just remind you that you yourself were discussing the brexit camp talking about a likely recession.

You jumped up and down in excitement when they said there would likely be an economic decline short term.

So again you appear to be forgetting what you have said before now. You state that the brexit camp denied there would be a economic shock, but then you are found jumping up and down with glee as the brexit camp have agreed there would be a short economic shock.

The thing is though - you simply ignore all this and carry on, pretending your arguments are still somehow credible, even though you are disagreeing with your very own arguments.

BobQ

chaostheory wrote: »

But they can't initiate legislation. Which is why nobody cares about MEP elections. MEPs basically do nothing. As I said above creating legislation can only be done by unelected commissioners - so who cares if he MEPs are voted for via PR rather than FPTP.

The level of ignorance of the EU is one of the reasons we have opted for Brexit.

The EP reviews the work of the Commission (which is essentially the civil service) and identifies which areas it expects to see legislation. It can also propose to the Council areas where it should direct the Commission to initiate laws. The Commission (like our civil service) drafts legislation for the EP to discuss and vote on. The EP is where the power is.

The Commissioners are appointed to manage the Commissions work, like Permanent Secretaries in our civil service. You do not elect Permanent Secretaries either. The Commisioners have an executive function they draft legislation but they do not make laws. That is the role of the EP.

kinger101

BobQ wrote: »

The level of ignorance of the EU is one of the reasons we have opted for Brexit.

The EP reviews the work of the Commission (which is essentially the civil service) and identifies which areas it expects to see legislation. It can also propose to the Council areas where it should direct the Commission to initiate laws. The Commission (like our civil service) drafts legislation for the EP to discuss and vote on. The EP is where the power is.

The Commissioners are appointed to manage the Commissions work, like Permanent Secretaries in our civil service. You do not elect Permanent Secretaries either. The Commisioners have an executive function they draft legislation but they do not make laws. That is the role of the EP.

Your comparisons with the Civil Service are disingenuous. The House of Commons has the power to initiate legislation. The European Parliament doesn't. The European Parliament is very much the second chamber.

The Commission cannot by any stretch of the imagination be compared to the UK Civil Service.

Generali

HAMISH_MCTAVISH wrote: »

The EU is more democratic than the UK...

I find it funny that people in a country with an unelected Head of State, a Government elected by little more than a third of the people that voted and a parliament in which you can win 1/8th of the vote and get 1/650th of the seats complain about the EU being undemocratic!

Generali

chaostheory wrote: »

I'm not sure I agree with all of this but it illustrates how the EU Commission leaves itself open to criticism

http://www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/matthew-ellery/eu-referendum_b_9514608.html

That's great but it's simply not true.

The EP can propose laws under the special legislative procedures in areas like taxation and law (justice). It also was the power to refuse to pass laws proposed by the Commission.

The Commission can't simply unilaterally pass laws into power, if the EP fails to pass the legislation by a simple majority then the legislation fails and is not passed into law.