Damn Chimney Support again..

ydrol2

One more question, the chimney stack is shared with the neighbour. Removing the stack is beginning to look more favourable to me (£1500 vs £2500+) now gallows are ruled out.

As more of the stack 'appears' to sits on the neighbours roof. If the neighbour is in agreement, could I just get them to sign something, and vice-versa

Eg.

http://www.collier-stevens.co.uk/surveyors-blog/wp-content/uploads/2011/11/Typical-Party-Structure-Notice.pdf

and in there mention I will make good on their roof (timers,felts etc).
but tiles might not be an exact match in colour. (or whatever roofer advises)

fezster

In the absence of a competent and experienced builder, you need a structural engineer who a) makes a site visit to draw up plans (i.e. not over the internet!), and b) is able to make a site visit during and after works are completed (probably at additional cost).

If you have a competent SE, then a building notice to the council is usually sufficient. However, to be extra careful, you can do a full plans submission and have it pre-approved by the council, if you so wish.

In theory, there's nothing wrong with final payment being conditional on council approval. But this will usually only happen if you ask your builder to take on responsibility for the calcs and drawings. If you your builder is asked to do a specific job, he cant then be held responsible if that job does not get council approval.

Furts

fezster wrote: »

In the absence of a competent and experienced builder, you need a structural engineer who a) makes a site visit to draw up plans (i.e. not over the internet!), and b) is able to make a site visit during and after works are completed (probably at additional cost).

If you have a competent SE, then a building notice to the council is usually sufficient. However, to be extra careful, you can do a full plans submission and have it pre-approved by the council, if you so wish.

In theory, there's nothing wrong with final payment being conditional on council approval. But this will usually only happen if you ask your builder to take on responsibility for the calcs and drawings. If you your builder is asked to do a specific job, he cant then be held responsible if that job does not get council approval.

For the benefit of OP I am making the comment that I go with the ethos of this post. There is an important addition, which to an extent runs a little counter to this post.

You are out of your comfort zone. Your builder choice was foolish. Your ability to find and control a builder appears lacking. Hence in my #4 I said "get a design". This means a working drawing that can be submitted to the council, and also used by you to monitor the work, and issued to the builder to tell that person what is required. All this is childs play and means there will not be an issue with the end job not being suitable for approval.

Yes I am stating the obvious, yes I am repeating myself, but I sense from your responses that you are not receptive to considered advice!

ydrol2

I do now plan to get a design as I said in #1 (if I dont remove the stack).


From #1

Meanwhile I think the best play is to get calculations approved by council before doing anything else.
...
Shall I buy £500 plans from SE who visited site, ..
OR
buy £75 calculations over the internet

so whilst appreciate you repeating this in #4 ,
and bringing it up again in #14 it should be clear from #1 that is my intention - as a result of lessons learned. (yes thought I could get away without one for gallows install - got burnt - lesson learned)


I am out of my comfort zone - that's why I'm asking.

Specifically I was asking if I could get away with online plans or not. Consensus is - get a SE out to site, dont go with online calcs. Thank you everybody for the advice. This is my main question answered. I now plan to do this and avoid online plans. Advice taken. So again I think you're being unfair in that regard.


Choice of builder - well initially this was for gallows which, I understand, is relatively simple (neighbour still has all chimney), and no SE will issue plans for gallows anyway, and tradesman said they could do it and came recommended (I think they can do a bit more than just roofing). So what went before is a different situation to solution with RSJ where plans and more "structural building" skills are required (see #1). But going forward - I agree - Both he and I are ouit of depth, and I will engage an actual builder for work going forward - advice given - advice taken.

Regarding the whole end-to-end process Council have told me one thing, SE another slightly different, builder slightly different again. But I think I've got something I can work to now.

Regarding monitoring the work - I don't have the skill set. Sure I can check the right stuff is in the right place with a tape measure but that's about it. It's not childs play to me, e.g. to check quality of welding, if any is required etc. I was under the impression that council serve as quality control , but now I understand from fezster (and hinted at my you) that a final call out from a SE does. (another £160+VAT) Understood thank you.

Also when asking online, I like to get consensus rather just follow advice of a single responder. Esp if that responder is telling me to do things I've already said I'm going to do.

Still the scope of the job has changed now, so with plans, and agreed quote, it should be easier to engage a builder.

Someone mentioned removing the stack - I've confirmed with building control that they will have no further involvement if I remove the entire stack and I'll be talking to neighbour this evening to see if that is an option.

I've clicked the thank-you button whenever I've received something useful.
(Filtering out the barbs and digs from those who just can't help themselves)
Perhaps reflecting it back is easiest way to stop some people making assumptions about my understanding or appreciation. I don't know.

PS If you could demonstrably point out precisely which points I'm not being receptive to , I'm all ears.

ydrol2

stone7 wrote: »

Get the redundant stack removed and have done with it.

Good news , spoke to neighbour re removing the stack and they are all for it.

I did briefly consider this before but hoped gallows would be less hassle. I forgot to put this option back in the frame once RSJ came into the picture. So stone7 many, many thanks for this.

Husband next door, knows people in the trade so I asked him to recommend a roofing contractor he is comfortable with and I'll look at quotes.
Win-win - thanks for the advice here and the other threads.

southcoastrgi

ydrol2 wrote: »

Good news , spoke to neighbour re removing the stack and they are all for it.

I did briefly consider this before but hoped gallows would be less hassle. I forgot to put this option back in the frame once RSJ came into the picture. So stone7 many, many thanks for this.

Husband next door, knows people in the trade so I asked him to recommend a roofing contractor he is comfortable with and I'll look at quotes.
Win-win - thanks for the advice here and the other threads.

Here we go again, roofers install tiles & slates & sometimes lead work, you need a BUILDER, a good one will be able to take down the chimney, batten the roof & fit new tiles, you will also be surprised how many bricks will need to be removed, you will need at least one skip & scaffolding or a tower depending on where the stack is, one thing is certain it's not a cheap job

ydrol2

Well not again as this is different as it impacts the roof.

I'm aware of the scaffolding and bricks and skips. Thanks.

I'm aware of approximate costs m and I'm already getting 3 quotes. (one is a general builder)

Either way I'm hoping it will work out to be less or similar costs and certainly less hassle than RSJ option. No plans, no Engineer, no Council.

Genuinely curious Is "making good a roof" less of a skill set demand than removing visible chimney stack and additional internal breast in my loft?

Why would many roofing companies offer and quote chimney stack removal in their services if they cant do it?

Eg one contractor recommended to me as on their website "Roofing and Rennovations" - has list of services -


"..are skilled in the removal, rebuilding and restoration of external Chimney Stacks.

We offer a service which includes lead flashings, re-pointing, rendering, capping, chimney pot installation/replacement or chimney stack removal."

are you suggesting that it's generally inadvisable to use such services? Or are you making assumptions about the roofing contractors I'm engaging?

ydrol2

Here's an example

http://www.clayridgeroofing.co.uk/roofs/chimney-stack-removals/

http://furberroofing.co.uk/chimney-stack-removal-repair/

This is a general page on removing a chimney stack.

http://quotationcheck.com/remove-chimney-cost/

The type of tradesman they mention is ... "we asked our chosen roofers"



Roofing companies - removing stacks - is this so wrong ? I can find many many more.
So what is wrong with going down this route?

Furts

ydrol2 wrote: »

Here's an example

http://www.clayridgeroofing.co.uk/roofs/chimney-stack-removals/

http://furberroofing.co.uk/chimney-stack-removal-repair/

This is a general page on removing a chimney stack.

http://quotationcheck.com/remove-chimney-cost/

The type of tradesman they mention is ... "we asked our chosen roofers"



Roofing companies - removing stacks - is this so wrong ? I can find many many more.
So what is wrong with going down this route?

Wake up and smell the coffee here. Open your eyes and get real. Your chosen post of Clayridge Roofing shows cowboy building at its zenith. No hi vis jacket, no safety helmet, no harness, no scaffolding, no edge protection, no visible materials, no visible access, no means of removing materials...the list goes on. If this is where you are pitching your expectations then I wish you well.

Just bear in mind that you have an implied duty of care as a fellow human being. The guy from Clayridge Roofing could have slipped and been killed a moment after the photo was taken. Are you really happy to run this risk on your home?

But even if you could not care less about safety, are you happy with the mismatched new tiles?

ydrol2

At the risk for further criticism, I sense some deflecting here to make a point.

I clearly know nothing about the roofing trade nor building trade. That is not my profession. So I'm asking here.

southcoastrgi is saying that 'roofers are not the correct people to remove chimney stacks'.

But there are lots of roofers offering this service. "Clayridge Roofing" was just the result of a google. there are many more.

http://quotationcheck.com/remove-chimney-cost/ mentions they asked 'roofers'.

You are calling out one roofer for bad health & safety and bad roofing.
That doesnt really support the assertion that good roofers can't remove chimney stacks does it?

Am I being totally naive in assuming it requires more specialised skill to repair a roof than to remove visible chimney stack? (I guess I know your answer to that).

I understand the sentiment , ie. "dont employ a roofer to remove a chimney stack" - but I dont fully understand why not. (and not fully convinced by you calling out one dodgy example above - what about the others?). Forgive me for wanting to understand more first, rather than just go on internet hearsay.

Here's another - http://www.dlongroofing.com/our-services/chimney-stacks/

Are all these likely to not do the job correctly? Why does the 'quotationcheck web site get quotes from roofers. Is this an industry wide issue?

BTW I have 25 spare matching roof tiles from neighbouring roofs when they were recently replaced by council.