Primary School Says I am Totally Wrong About them Not Meeting My Son's Needs

theoretica

susancs wrote: »

IMO the 9 times tables finger method [...]was not a good method. The reason is that that method does not allow the division extension associated with learning the 9 times tables and other times tables e.g. if 9x5=45, this means that 45 divided by 5 = 9 and 45 divided by 9= 5.

susancs wrote: »

I think an abacus is a great visual way to help young children understand maths concepts. I used to use one with my children.

But the finger method of the 9 times table is exactly that, a visual or tactile working of the method described by liney. A good use of this method would be to more than present it as a trick, to look at why it works and what it is doing.

liney wrote: »

An even easier way to remember, if you can't just reel them off, is the answer always starters with 1 less then the mutiple and the digits add to 9, so 3x9 must start with a 2 therefore the other digit is 7.

If you can learn a song, you can learn times tables. Sing them.

Songs are great, but very often you need to go from the beginning to get to the bit you want, people may need to say '30 days hath September' to remember if November has 30 or 31 days. Just because someone knows a song, doesn't mean they can get to the right bit fast enough, they need other tools too, such as easy places to start in the middle of songs or number series.

susancs

theoretica wrote: »

But the finger method of the 9 times table is exactly that, a visual or tactile working of the method described by liney. A good use of this method would be to more than present it as a trick, to look at why it works and what it is doing.

I would be interested in how you would present the 9 times tables finger method as a visual tool to help young children gain an understanding of mulitplication and division as I must admit I can't see it and am interested in how you use it. For example you put down the 3rd finger from the left for 3x9 and then know that 2 fingers before for tens and seven after gives you 27 and I cannot see how this shows 3 groups of 9 or 9 groups of 3 to allow for understanding of both multiplication and division concepts.

ecgirl07

missbiggles1 wrote: »

What's wrong with simply learning them by heart?

Because learning by heart does not necessarily mean any understanding of what 6x4=24 means. It means you can remember a fact but it does not necessarily show understanding of the maths behind this. Developing understanding through using materials, and exploring different ways 6×4 works ie 6x2x2 or 3x2x2x2. if maths is taught properly kids can see it like a language and don't need to learn by heart because their previous understanding means they can work it out. For more detail look at SEAL maths.

theoretica

susancs wrote: »

I would be interested in how you would present the 9 times tables finger method as a visual tool to help young children gain an understanding of mulitplication and division as I must admit I can't see it and am interested in how you use it. For example you put down the 3rd finger from the left for 3x9 and then know that 2 fingers before for tens and seven after gives you 27 and I cannot see how this shows 3 groups of 9 or 9 groups of 3 to allow for understanding of both multiplication and division concepts.

I wouldn't, because it isn't a tool for that method of mutliplication - it helps understand the method described by liney, as I said, and quoted:
the answer always starters with 1 less then the mutiple and the digits add to 9, so 3x9 must start with a 2 therefore the other digit is 7.

Which comes down the fact that 9X = (10-1)X = 10X-X which is a very useful concept, appropriate to primary maths, though I would expect at a later stage than the 'groups of' you talk about. Choose a couple of easier mutiplications and add or subtract them appropriately.

The fingers are showing the subtraction.

missbiggles1

ecgirl07 wrote: »

Because learning by heart does not necessarily mean any understanding of what 6x4=24 means. It means you can remember a fact but it does not necessarily show understanding of the maths behind this. Developing understanding through using materials, and exploring different ways 6×4 works ie 6x2x2 or 3x2x2x2. if maths is taught properly kids can see it like a language and don't need to learn by heart because their previous understanding means they can work it out. For more detail look at SEAL maths.

Learning by heart doesn't preclude understanding, there's always a place for knowledge.

Why would you want to "work out" how much it would cost to buy 6 things costing £4 each when you can know instantly that the cost is £24?

[Deleted User]

To answer the earlier assumptions.., this is the second reply I have had from the NAS.., in the earlier reply they advised I apply for an EHCP (two days before). I have been fighting for the school to apply for an EHCP since they started.., the school keep saying he doesn't meet the criteria. I have been told over and over the school is meeting his needs and doesn't need this.

I would never ever refuse an EHCP assessment. I'd put the flags out and have a major celebration.

I believe that a lot of the problems with the school (criticisms of my parenting strategies) lie behind the refusal to give up on asking them to meet his needs. To them, I am causing my son to be unneccesarily negative in his thoughts about the school.

I had him refusing school again today, after a GP appt (for his asthma which is now a constant - he's been referred to a Paediatrician, apparently - last visit I was given the impression they wouldn't). But might be making a little progress with his Dad. Because its only two weeks to the end of school year, it looks like they have dropped the time table. His Dad might be starting to get that's difficult for our son. But I have to force him to go in there for that. Hard. I just keep repeating that its only two weeks to go.., and then for the first time we are actually going on holiday (locally, but its a holiday).

I have just asked IASK (used to be parent partnership) to go with me into the next CIN meeting. Everything crossed they say yes. They are very understaffed and I'm a long way from their office. But I really need someone to help.

susancs

deannatrois wrote: »

I have just asked IASK (used to be parent partnership) to go with me into the next CIN meeting. Everything crossed they say yes. They are very understaffed and I'm a long way from their office. But I really need someone to help.

I hope they are able to come with you. It must be very hard to go into a "child in need" meeting on your own with no support.

Firetastic

ecgirl07 wrote: »

Because learning by heart does not necessarily mean any understanding of what 6x4=24 means. It means you can remember a fact but it does not necessarily show understanding of the maths behind this. Developing understanding through using materials, and exploring different ways 6×4 works ie 6x2x2 or 3x2x2x2. if maths is taught properly kids can see it like a language and don't need to learn by heart because their previous understanding means they can work it out. For more detail look at SEAL maths.

This is a bit off topic but I was listening to the radio today with Mum and they were talking about rote learning times tables and the Chinese way of doing it. I said to Mum "It's all very well remembering it and reciting it parrot fashion but do you actually understand it? For example 5*5 = 25. Great but do you understand that it is just 5+5+5+5+5. If you can't actually apply it in real life then it is pointless learning it off by heart.

kingfisherblue

When is your next CIN meeting Deanna? Hope IAS can go with you.

[Deleted User]

Just had a reply to my email and someone will go with me, next meeting in October.

8 days of school to go. He's been diverted by the 'sex ed' classes they had today so no problems with school today lol. I did answer all his questions and told him he couldn't embarrass me lol. Do hope he didn't take that as a challenge lol.