Anger grows at The Boomers EU vandalism

michaels

In other news:
'Munificent boomers vote for lower interest rates and asset values and higher incomes for the unskilled to undo some of the intergenerational unfairness.

Moaners still find somethign to complain about.'

ruggedtoast

michaels wrote: »

In other news:
'Munificent boomers vote for lower interest rates and asset values and higher incomes for the unskilled to undo some of the intergenerational unfairness.

Moaners still find somethign to complain about.'

Yes, I suppose I hadn't looked at it like that.

Generali

michaels wrote: »

In other news:
'Munificent boomers vote for lower interest rates and asset values and higher incomes for the unskilled to undo some of the intergenerational unfairness.

Moaners still find somethign to complain about.'

I have some sympathy for the intergenerational unfairness argument.

Some of it, asset ownership for example, is utter twaddle but some, like very high house prices and the cost of education are very reasonable concerns.

The last Labour Governments (mostly) created a country where you effectively have to go to Uni if you don't want to be a tradie and charge you a fortune for doing so. You lose 3 years of income and incur a large debt.

In my first City job the head of one of the FX desks, a well paid and well respected job had started in the post room having left school at 16 and worked his way up. These days he wouldn't get a look in as if you don't have a Masters degree and you're young then nobody wants to know about you for the sorts of serious, high paid jobs that are relative meal tickets.

Scarpacci

It's sad to see this painted in such ugly terms. Why not take a moment to think through why older people might vote for an independent, sovereign Britain. It's because they were around to see the benefits of the nation state. They saw the promise that individual nations could deliver to their people, the safety they could offer people, the progress they could push through for their people.

Complaining that the young are trapped on an island with no automatic right to go elsewhere is a sign of how the EU has warped people's perspective. Such a right is, frankly, absurd. How many of the earth's seven billion people have a legal right to just wander over a work somewhere else? Very few, because it's a fundamentally bad idea - at least between disparate economies.

More than the right to go work somewhere else, people should have the right to expect good jobs in their community. They shouldn't be told to learn Estonian and jump on an EasyJet flight to Tallinn. The nation state is the best driver of prosperity, and I hope this will deliver for the people of Britain left behind by the failed European project.

Generali

Scarpacci wrote: »

It's sad to see this painted in such ugly terms. Why not take a moment to think through why older people might vote for an independent, sovereign Britain. It's because they were around to see the benefits of the nation state. They saw the promise that individual nations could deliver to their people, the safety they could offer people, the progress they could push through for their people.

Complaining that the young are trapped on an island with no automatic right to go elsewhere is a sign of how the EU has warped people's perspective. Such a right is, frankly, absurd. How many of the earth's seven billion people have a legal right to just wander over a work somewhere else? Very few, because it's a fundamentally bad idea - at least between disparate economies.

More than the right to go work somewhere else, people should have the right to expect good jobs in their community. They shouldn't be told to learn Estonian and jump on an EasyJet flight to Tallinn. The nation state is the best driver of prosperity, and I hope this will deliver for the people of Britain left behind by the failed European project.

TBH I think it's mostly because they hate living around foreigners.

kabayiri

Generali wrote: »

...

The last Labour Governments (mostly) created a country where you effectively have to go to Uni if you don't want to be a tradie and charge you a fortune for doing so. You lose 3 years of income and incur a large debt.
...

I sat next to an adviser working in a Learning Skills Council contact centre, to listen in on a few calls from people seeking careers advice.

A girl rang in, wanting to be a nanny, looking for advice.

The computer system dredged up 2 options :- one involving a degree; one involving a higher option (not quite Phd thankfully).

I was shocked. Flippin' degrees or Masters to be a nanny?!!

In the 60s all you needed was a flying umbrella and a spoonful of sugar.

mwpt

Scarpacci wrote: »

It's sad to see this painted in such ugly terms. Why not take a moment to think through why older people might vote for an independent, sovereign Britain. It's because they were around to see the benefits of the nation state. They saw the promise that individual nations could deliver to their people, the safety they could offer people, the progress they could push through for their people.

Complaining that the young are trapped on an island with no automatic right to go elsewhere is a sign of how the EU has warped people's perspective. Such a right is, frankly, absurd. How many of the earth's seven billion people have a legal right to just wander over a work somewhere else? Very few, because it's a fundamentally bad idea - at least between disparate economies.

More than the right to go work somewhere else, people should have the right to expect good jobs in their community. They shouldn't be told to learn Estonian and jump on an EasyJet flight to Tallinn. The nation state is the best driver of prosperity, and I hope this will deliver for the people of Britain left behind by the failed European project.

Do you have any basis for reaching such a conclusion? Any papers or studies you could mention? Is it just your opinion based on your observations of the world condensed into a truism?

Which particular glorious period in British history are you now hoping to emulate where we had it better than now?

In my opinion you guys are selling snake oil based on emotional pleas that life right now is worse than in the past and that the EU is to blame for that.

It could be something to do with our bailed out finance sector. It could be do to our high (est ever) welfare and pensions bill. It could be due to the skewed incentives working tax credits and housing benefit create. It could be due to billions of Indians and Chinese working for cheaper than you would. It could be due to mega corporations concentrating profit in the hands of fewer people. It could be due to automation reducing labour's bargaining power.

But no, it is the EU and immigrants.

ruggedtoast

Scarpacci wrote: »

It's sad to see this painted in such ugly terms. Why not take a moment to think through why older people might vote for an independent, sovereign Britain. It's because they were around to see the benefits of the nation state. They saw the promise that individual nations could deliver to their people, the safety they could offer people, the progress they could push through for their people.

Complaining that the young are trapped on an island with no automatic right to go elsewhere is a sign of how the EU has warped people's perspective. Such a right is, frankly, absurd. How many of the earth's seven billion people have a legal right to just wander over a work somewhere else? Very few, because it's a fundamentally bad idea - at least between disparate economies.

More than the right to go work somewhere else, people should have the right to expect good jobs in their community. They shouldn't be told to learn Estonian and jump on an EasyJet flight to Tallinn. The nation state is the best driver of prosperity, and I hope this will deliver for the people of Britain left behind by the failed European project.

The nation states delivered centuries of wars including two that finished off hundreds of millions of people in the most horrible ways imaginable.

In the post war pre EU period the UK suffered from political unrest, awful poverty, and an economy that couldn't even keep the lights on for more than 3 days a week.

The thing you need to realise is that most younger people feel that the fact you consider that was somehow preferable to now is unbelievable.

The fact that very few older people are in any way vulnerable to any of the economic shocks that Brexit will cause is hardly making it much better.

I don't want to agree with Generali's immigrant thing, but that really just seems to be what it boils down to.

Going4TheDream

We have seen a leftish ideology being pushed on the young in education for a long time rather than a balanced view of the world (both good and bad) where they can grow up informed and come to their own conclusions and not be programmed to uncritically accept everything they are taught as true.

If the young who are raging had actually spent time mobilizing their peers prior to the referendum and getting them involved to vote,rather than believing everyone thinks like they do, the result perhaps could have been different

Generali

kabayiri wrote: »

A girl rang in, wanting to be a nanny, looking for advice.

The computer system dredged up 2 options :- one involving a degree; one involving a higher option (not quite Phd thankfully).

A nanny is a servant. Since when did a servant need to have a !!!!!!!g degree?

(Before someone gets outraged, I married a nanny and have a lot of friends that are or were nannies).

If you want to be a nanny then good on you. Leave school at 16, a year at college (or two if you want to work in a nursery while you're doing it so you can earn 'n' learn) and you're there.

Same sort of thing if you want to be a chef or a plumber or a chippie or a sparkie. I have the utmost respect for people who have trades and take their trades seriously but that doesn't mean I think they need to study until age 23 to cook my dinner.