Anger grows at The Boomers EU vandalism

StevieJ

This mess was created by one person and I have news for you Rugged he wasn't Boomer. CAMERON!

fun4everyone

EU Law professor denounces leave campaign as misrepresentation and deception that was "criminal"

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0dosmKwrAbI

Thrugelmir

StevieJ wrote: »

This mess was created by one person and I have news for you Rugged he wasn't Boomer. CAMERON!

Surprised you aren't blaming Thatcher for signing up to far more than she should have done.

Samsonite1

I do not think the public can actually be blamed of wrongdoing - they were asked a question and answered it.

The problem was the question itself - Cameron and/or puppet masters. People thought they were voting for immigration control or to save money (and other good or bad reasons), but in fact they were literally being asked whether or not they wanted to remain members of the EU and nothing more.

Of course, because of this question being asked, sections of society are now at loggerheads with each other and it seems to have brought out the worst in everybody.

Not having Brexit plans in place is causing a lot of the uncertainty now and may well do for some time to come - slightly negligent perhaps and arrogant to assume Remain would win and not bother doing any planning for the other eventuality.

It feels like we have set off in a big boat (The Brexit) into the ocean of uncertainty and for days now everyone is just asking "Did anyone bring any supplies?", "Where are we actually going?" and "Who's driving this thing?". Meanwhile, the people who built the boat have jumped into a life raft and are hoping someone else will take ownership of their hard work, while floating around aimlessly.

Sorry, just felt like an analogy today.

Andy_L

Samsonite1 wrote: »

Not having Brexit plans in place is causing a lot of the uncertainty now and may well do for some time to come - slightly negligent perhaps and arrogant to assume Remain would win and not bother doing any planning for the other eventuality.

but, realistically, beyond "we will spend 2 years negotiating the best deal we can with the EU", "we we negotiate trade deals with all the countries we haven't negotiated them with" and "the BoE will do its thing to manage interest rates/Exchange rates" what could a Brexit plan have consisted of?

Thrugelmir

Samsonite1 wrote: »

The problem was the question itself - Cameron and/or puppet masters. People thought they were voting for immigration control or to save money (and other good or bad reasons), but in fact they were literally being asked whether or not they wanted to remain members of the EU and nothing more.

Cameron was left with no choice. EU bureaucrats drew a red line. Free movement of people was non negotiable. Now we are beginning to see the fall out from the EU's position of bloody mindedness.

Herzlos

Well, some idea of what deal we are going to ask for / accept, what legislation we plan to keep or drop. What we're going to do with all this control we've taken back. Some idea of timelines for whatever changes are coming.

We'll need to propose deals with the EU and with all these other countries, we can't just sit at a table and ask "So... urr... What do we get?".

We're about to embark on a multi-year negotiation project (I bet it'll be 5+ years) with dozens of countries and probably over a million pages of contract, and the only plan we seem to have is a bit of bog roll with 2 phrases written on:

"Sovereignty!"
"Take back control!".

StevieJ

Thrugelmir wrote: »

Cameron was left with no choice. EU bureaucrats drew a red line. Free movement of people was non negotiable. Now we are beginning to see the fall out from the EU's position of bloody mindedness.

What do you mean he had no choice? He chose to hold a referendum 😨

wotsthat

Thrugelmir wrote: »

Cameron was left with no choice. EU bureaucrats drew a red line. Free movement of people was non negotiable. Now we are beginning to see the fall out from the EU's position of bloody mindedness.

Some of Cameron's would be replacements are already suggesting changes to limit/ control EU immigration that, they interpret, might meet the EU rules on free movement. Cameron had a choice to make the same interpretation and, if needs be, argue through the courts.

Red lines are unhelpful but we shouldn't be so partisan to think this amateur negotiating tactic is limited to foreigners.

Samsonite1

Thrugelmir wrote: »

Cameron was left with no choice. EU bureaucrats drew a red line. Free movement of people was non negotiable. Now we are beginning to see the fall out from the EU's position of bloody mindedness.

And yet free movement of people may well remain in place anyway. Have to admit that the EU has not behaved particularly well in the wake of it. Apparently there is no good reason other than spite to not allow negotiations before invoking Article 50. The arbitrary 2 years is meaningless as both sides will be in limbo with some agreements in mid-flight. It would make perfect sense to start negotiations and trigger the exit when there is a clear way forward for all.