County court threat at incorrect address over PCN from Civil Enforcement LTD

1postie

[FONT=&quot]I hope someone can please advise us on where to go with this:

My partner rents her house out and we have moved in together.[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot] On 14 March 2016 a PCN was issued referring to parking for over 2 hours on Halls Mill Retail Park, Foundry Street, Bury I am unsure if we had been parked over this time, however a red letter was sent on 14 April 2016 increasing the amount from £60 to £100 and giving the 28 April 2016 as the time permitted to pay this charge. [/FONT]

[FONT=&quot]Both of these letters were sent to my partners house where she no longer lives, however it wasn’t until early May that she informed the DVLA of her new address and consequently [FONT=&quot]Civil enforcement LTD[/FONT] had applied to the DVLA for her details and sent the above letters to an address where she no longer resided.[/FONT]

[FONT=&quot]We had left a self addressed envelope with the tenant to forward any mail and both the above letters were received in this envelope after the specified date to pay the reduced amount or appeal.[/FONT]

[FONT=&quot]She had changed her address with the DVLA in May and yesterday 23 June we called at the rented house to collect any mail and drop off another self addressed envelope and we found 2 further letters on this subject one issued 17 May 2016 from civil enforcement Liverpool offering a final opportunity to pay the now amount of £140 within 14 days and a second letter dated 17 June 2016 from ZZPS of Surrey stating our unpaid PCN has been passed to them to resolve and referring to parking eye vs beaver.[/FONT]

[FONT=&quot]We had genuinely not received the PCN in time if we were going to pay or appeal and the further letters have been sent to an address which is no longer registered with DVLA. We would appreciate any helpful advise on what to do about this Scary matter as its time sensitive I feel we must act in the next couple of days.[/FONT]

Castle

1postie wrote: »

[FONT=&quot]She had changed her address with the DVLA in May and yesterday 23 June we called at the rented house to collect any mail and drop off another self addressed envelope and we found 2 further letters on this subject one issued 17 May 2016 from civil enforcement Liverpool offering a final opportunity to pay the now amount of £140 within 14 days and a second letter dated 17 June 2016 from ZZPS of Surrey stating our unpaid PCN has been passed to them to resolve and referring to parking eye vs beaver.[/FONT]

What has Civil Enforcement got to do with this?

1postie

On the PCN notice (letters 1 and 2) it states
"Failure to pay the amount due within 28 days of the issue may result in civil enforcement LTD forwarding my account to a debt recovery agent"
Letter 3 states its from and on behalf of civil enforcement LTD Horton House Liverpool V2 3PF

Castle

1postie wrote: »

On the PCN notice (letters 1 and 2) it states
"Failure to pay the amount due within 28 days of the issue may result in civil enforcement LTD forwarding my account to a debt recovery agent"
Letter 3 states its from and on behalf of civil enforcement LTD Horton House Liverpool V2 3PF

So who sent you the PCN's; Civil Enforcement Ltd or Parkingeye Ltd?

1postie

The PCN's dont have a senders details on other than informing
"Failure to pay the amount due within 28 days of the issue may result in civil enforcement LTD forwarding my account to a debt recovery agent"
Letter 3 states its from and on behalf of civil enforcement LTD Horton House Liverpool V2 3PFand that this is also who to pay, yet the 3 rd letter stating its from civil enforcement LTD has the name and address clearly visible. Is parking eye not the camera used?

Half_way

Parking eye is a separate company based in Chorley owned by capita.

Quentin

1postie wrote: »

....... We would appreciate any helpful advise on what to do about this Scary matter as its time sensitive I feel we must act in the next couple of days.

You could send in a late appeal explaining the circs for the late reply (although it will probably be a waste of time now, you will at least have a paper trail to use should this end up in court)


See the newbies faq thread towards the top of the forum for advice and a template letter for the initial appeal

Coupon-mad

1postie wrote: »

The PCN's dont have a senders details on other than informing
"Failure to pay the amount due within 28 days of the issue may result in civil enforcement LTD forwarding my account to a debt recovery agent"
Letter 3 states its from and on behalf of civil enforcement LTD Horton House Liverpool V2 3PFand that this is also who to pay, yet the 3 rd letter stating its from civil enforcement LTD has the name and address clearly visible. Is parking eye not the camera used?

You just mean it's CEL and not ParkingEye ('parkingeye' is not a generic name for these type of cameras! ANPR is).

So, just follow the NEWBIES thread advice and email (NOT POST) an appeal to CEL, the template one for BPA members. Remember NOT to imply who was driving, which is why the template is written for you.

A registered keeper appellant can't be held liable by CEL. Hence why you remain a registered keeper appellant!

It will be a very late appeal but you should also tell them your new postal address and explain that their PCN letter was only just retrieved from the old address (and that the DVLA details are correct, just to stop scaremongering at you about that, which has nothing to do with them really). Tell them therefore that the PCN has only just been deemed 'served' and this is your challenge and new address for service of all replies and paperwork.

Scary matter as its time sensitive I feel we must act in the next couple of days.

Well it is NOT SCARY at all but you do need to contact them to give the new address and challenge this as the keeper, yes. It is possible they will cancel when they see you know that a keeper can't be held liable (it's part of the template appeal, about non-compliance with the POFA).

If they ask who was driving, do not tell them, there is no obligation to do so at all and the keeper cannot be liable (due to CEL's own choice, not to use POFA compliant PCNs).

Fruitcake

In order to avert confusion and get the correct advice, please amend your posts to reflect the correct name of the parking company.

1postie

Thanks for your help on this, I have amended the name to the correct one now. I have located what I believe to be the template referred to is this the one?
challenge this 'PCN' as keeper of the car and I will complain to the landowner about the matter if it is not cancelled.

I believe that your signs fail the test of 'large lettering' and prominence, as established in ParkingEye Ltd v Beavis. Your unremarkable and obscure signs were not seen by the driver, are in very small print and the terms are not readable to drivers before they park.

Further, I understand you do not own the car park and you have given me no information about your policy with the landowner or on site businesses, to cancel such a charge. So please supply that policy as required under the Consumer Contracts (Information, Cancellation and Additional Charges) Regulations 2013. I believe the driver may well be eligible for cancellation and you have omitted clear information about the process for complaints including a geographical address of the landowner.

There will be no admissions as to who was driving and no assumptions can be drawn. You must either rely on the POFA 2012 and offer me a POPLA code, or cancel the charge.
should I be referring to signage I have no idea about or is it just to generate a POPLA code? I have written to pets at home who are on the site aswell

Ralph-y

yes ... its the right one

no ..... just use the template as is .....

good luck

Ralph:cool: