Forget about Brexit - what if we Remain?

societys_child

I'm voting in tomorrow and I hope everyone else will do the same.

Good for you, I'm certainly not.
"Remain" gives the impression that everything will remain the same, it won't.
Do you not think that the referendum loophole will closed and you'll never be given the chance to vote in or out again.
It's been mission creep since we were conned all those years ago.

If we leave, the EU won't stop trading with us, that's lies and pure bs.

moneyistooshorttomention

"Same basic values as us" - well that applies to France, Germany, etc for instance - ie the European countries.

But what about Turkey for instance? - I dont think so these days....

I might have thought differently if the EU had stuck to European countries only - and not in the process of letting in "any blinkin' country that wants in" and that includes one or two already in...

AlistairM

moneyistooshorttomention wrote: »

"Same basic values as us" - well that applies to France, Germany, etc for instance - ie the European countries.

But what about Turkey for instance? - I dont think so these days....

I might have thought differently if the EU had stuck to European countries only - and not in the process of letting in "any blinkin' country that wants in" and that includes one or two already in...

Turkey is not part of the EU. It wont be while any of us are alive, and even then not till its compatible with the EU's ideology.


I don't see why the EU should remain exclusive to European countries either.

mrginge

AlistairM wrote: »

How would you describe a government that carries out chemical castration or sentences heretics to death?


We're in the EU and we still bow to these Tyrants. They came to the queens birthday.

It's not going to be easier to resist their influence leaving the EU

I would describe such a government as despicable.
I wouldn't describe the entire population of such a country in the same way though.

Perhaps we could hear your Donald Trump inspired thoughts on other racial groups aswell?

Miss_Samantha

moneyistooshorttomention wrote: »

But what about Turkey for instance? - I dont think so these days....

It has been repeated ad nauseam, but apparently still not enough:

Turkey is not in the EU, Turkey does not meet the criteria to join the EU, and Turkey would require the approval of all EU member states to join.
Visa-free travel to the UK would also require approval of the UK government, irrespective of whether we stay or leave the EU as this is a matter of government policy, not EU policy.

Talking about Turkey in this referendum is scaremongering, and frankly, quite a disgraceful tactic.

Davesnave

AlistairM wrote: »

I don't think it can be as simple as just building more houses. You have to have all the support that such houses need, schools, hospitals, utilities, roads.

There's a lot of just dropping in extra houses to villages at the moment with full schools and busy roads.

I didn't wish to imply building without corresponding infrastructure.

However, we know continuity in planning isn't always great. We can't even seem to keep builds out of places of future flood risk, for example.

I'm not sure your concept of a village is the same as mine. My village has a much lower population than it had 100 years ago and it's long lost its school., PO etc. Upping the population by around 8% isn't generally opposed here, and there are no traffic jams likely, but it is only a temporary fix. A much wider vision is really called-for.

AlistairM

societys_child wrote: »

Good for you, I'm certainly not.
"Remain" gives the impression that everything will remain the same, it won't.
Do you not think that the referendum loophole will closed and you'll never be given the chance to vote in or out again.
It's been mission creep since we were conned all those years ago.

If we leave, the EU won't stop trading with us, that's lies and pure bs.

Right now the UK can veto any changes that affect would "close the loophole" if we leave and try and re-enter the EU we don't have that, and we have to submit to everything, and lose the pound.


You're absolutely right things wont stay the same for ever inside the EU. The world changes, that's life. I believe we're safer with the EU support than just being by ourselves.


If you want to carry on trading with the EU then we'll have to pay duties on it, if we want to avoid that we have to allow free movement.
After all that if we outperform the EUs industry then they'll slap a minimum import duty on our goods so we're not. If we even want to sell to the EU we still have to comply with everything that the EU already makes us do because its a requirement.


Things are going well now. Why risk everything now. We've got experts and allies all saying its a bad idea. I just don't understand why we're risking everything on a vague hope on a return to a rose-tined vision of an independent UK that never happened

mrginge

Miss_Samantha wrote: »

It has been repeated ad nauseam, but apparently still not enough:

Turkey is not in the EU, Turkey does not meet the criteria to join the EU, and Turkey would require the approval of all EU member states to join.
Visa-free travel to the UK would also require approval of the UK government, irrespective of whether we stay or leave the EU as this is a matter of government policy, not EU policy.

Talking about Turkey in this referendum is scaremongering, and frankly, quite a disgraceful tactic.

This is very true. Turkey has so many hoops to jump through in order to gain access that there is no realistic prospect of it happening.

We should move on from that subject and discuss how the EU has repeatedly ignored its own well-defined rules to both allow unprepared countries admittance to the eurozone (Greece for example) and failed to punish countries that breach their strict fiscal rules (France and Germany for example).

AlistairM

mrginge wrote: »

I would describe such a government as despicable.
I wouldn't describe the entire population of such a country in the same way though.

Perhaps we could hear your Donald Trump inspired thoughts on other racial groups aswell?

I wont get into a straw man argument with you. Trade relationships are handled by governments and so is diplomacy, that's doubly so of a dictatorship.


A racist is a person wouldn't be voting us out of the EU.


I'm not saying leavers are racist, but all racists will vote exit.

Miss_Samantha

mrginge wrote: »

We should move on from that subject and discuss how the EU has repeatedly ignored its own well-defined rules to both allow unprepared countries admittance to the eurozone (Greece for example)

As said, a country must have the approval of all existing members in order to join.

So when you write 'the EU' ignored the rules, you actually mean each and every members, including the UK, ignored the rules.

For everything in the EU the buck actually stops with national governments.

mrginge wrote: »

and failed to punish countries that breach their strict fiscal rules (France and Germany for example).

Throughout the credit crisis France had a smaller deficit than we did. So...