Forget about Brexit - what if we Remain?

Yolina

norm_ wrote: »

Yes because Norway, Switzerland, Iceland are such impoverished countries /sarcasm. The difference is they're free to make their own laws and do what's best for the interest of their citizens.

It has everything to do with the EU. "Around 3 million people living in the UK in 2014 were citizens of another EU country. That’s about 5% of the UK population".

Where are these people living? ...

Switzerland has a total population of around 8 million, about 2 million are not Swiss, so about 25%, most are from the EU.

mrginge

Davesnave wrote: »

Unfortunately, as an older person, you need the ageing population of the UK to be bolstered by an influx of younger people from elsewhere, not only to pay for your pension, but to run the services the older demographic needs most.

Without them GB Plc is stuffed.

This is an interesting point. I do wonder though, if we got all the young people from country X to come here and pay for our pensioners who would be looking after the pensioners in country X?
I also wonder what those young people do when the disproportionately higher number of pensioners here have died and there are pensioners in other countries who want looking after and have more money to pay them.

Buying in labour is no different to buying in steel or gas or French polish or anything else. Getting it cheaper from abroad is all very well, but if you systematically destroy your domestic ability to produce steel or gas or train doctors because of short term price factors then you have no infrastructure to rely on when country X decides to sell its steel and send its doctors to country Y instead of us.


So the question really is, do we actually *rely* on immigration because we have failed to train and develop our own young people, with the result that they are often disenfranchised (but still living here and needing to be housed) while cheaper economic migrants take up roles, pay the taxes (that would be paid anyway) but also add +1 to the public services and housing demand.

If a company used a delivery truck that broke down, they would repair it. They wouldn't go out and buy a new truck and keep the old broken one in a garage while still paying the insurance. Why then as a country do we do exactly that with our labour force?

Imo we really need to rebalance how young people are developed in this country. We say eff off to college, run up a massive debt and off you go on your own in the job market competing against thousands of others, many of whom have had the same or better level of education, do not have the same level of debt and will do the job for less money.

We need to protect our long term economic health by giving domestic labour back its comparative advantage and we only do that by getting rid of free movement, having sensible rules to let us determine what skills are actually needed and putting that alongside a nationally managed training and development strategy

agrinnall

needhouseadvice wrote: »

Will house prices just keep hurtling upwards? 1 beds I saw a few months ago for £200k are not £250k even with this so-called slowdown. Surely next year they can't jump another £50k can they? These are starter homes for crying out loud and you need the salaries of 2 people or 1 very well paid person to buy them.

Pffff.

Why not ask on the proper board - a big hint is the word DEBATE in the board title?

Miss_Samantha

mrginge wrote: »

We need to protect our long term economic health by giving domestic labour back its comparative advantage and we only do that by getting rid of free movement, having sensible rules to let us determine what skills are actually needed and putting that alongside a nationally managed training and development strategy

You start with a potentially valid premise then immediately jump to a completely unexplained and unrelated conclusion....

Arguing against the current situation based on economics is a lost cause.
Immigration has been good for the country when you look at the economic result (you may also look at other aspects, of course). This is not my opinion, this is a fact. Those claiming otherwise ignore the facts to make political statements.

moneyistooshorttomention

Thoroughly agree MrGinge.

That's discounting the fact even that people have the right to remain in their own countries if they wish to - and not have to seek employment/etc elsewhere. It seems to be unfashionable currently to take account of that right - but that doesnt mean it doesnt apply any longer.

mrginge

Miss_Samantha wrote: »

You start with a potentially valid premise then immediately jump to a completely unexplained and unrelated conclusion....

Thank you for your valuable contribution.

mrginge

Miss_Samantha wrote: »

You start with a potentially valid premise then immediately jump to a completely unexplained and unrelated conclusion....

Arguing against the current situation based on economics is a lost cause.
Immigration has been good for the country when you look at the economic result (you may also look at other aspects, of course). This is not my opinion, this is a fact. Those claiming otherwise ignore the facts to make political statements.

The economic argument for securitisation of subprime mortgage debt was sound as well so I believe. Right up to the point that it wasn't.

AlistairM

I don't think it can be as simple as just building more houses. You have to have all the support that such houses need, schools, hospitals, utilities, roads.

There's a lot of just dropping in extra houses to villages at the moment with full schools and busy roads.

Immigration is fine, it doesn't put more strain on the NHS, it takes it off. Young healthy people coming to work here aren't the people who use the NHS. Their pay will help bolster it. Same goes for pensions

They're not taking peoples jobs as long as new jobs keep becoming available. Unemployment levels are at a record low.


The money we send back to the EU helps bring parity to the weaker countries in the EU. The less disparity the less there will be of people envying richer countries like Britain.

I bought my house and I like being able to take time off to enjoy it. The EU is stopping us from turning into the US where rights are being eroded, now workers there barely get holidays.


If we stop trading with the EU, who are we going to trade with? Saudi Arabia, China? Tyrants and Homophobes? I'd rather we stuck with the people who have the same basic values as us influence us. These countries wont listen to a small place like us, it'll be the opposite. At least in the EU we have more clout.


A house price crash wont help younger generations if it makes credit more difficult to get hold of. It'll just mean people end up in negative equity and trapped with their mortgages unable to move. It'll lead to repossessions and misery.


I'm voting in tomorrow and I hope everyone else will do the same.

mrginge

AlistairM wrote: »

If we stop trading with the EU, who are we going to trade with? Saudi Arabia, China? Tyrants and Homophobes? I'd rather we stuck with the people who have the same basic values as us influence us. These countries wont listen to a small place like us, it'll be the opposite. At least in the EU we have more clout.

Some people may consider that sentiment to be slightly racist. Perhaps we should call you a 'little-EUer'?

AlistairM

mrginge wrote: »

Some people may consider that sentiment to be slightly racist. Perhaps we should call you a 'little-EUer'?

How would you describe a government that carries out chemical castration or sentences heretics to death?


We're in the EU and we still bow to these Tyrants. They came to the queens birthday.

It's not going to be easier to resist their influence leaving the EU