Referendum: which way are you voting?

tara747

Remain

Also, what happens when other companies start demanding their share of taxpayers' money?


What happens when there's a big hole in research funding?


What happens when the HNS wants its extra £350m a week?


What happens when the farmers want funding at the same level as the EU provided?


What happens to the infrastructure programmes that were going to be part-funded by the EU?


What happens to the environment when EU nature funding dries up?


What happens when the civil service has to be expanded to unpick all of the legislation at national and devolved level AND negotiate trade deals?


What happens when the government has to pay lawyers a fortune to deal with the legal and constitutional issues that are going to take years to unravel?


Where is all this magic money going to come from?

qwert_yuiop

tara747 wrote: »

Also, what happens when other companies start demanding their share of taxpayers' money?


What happens when there's a big hole in research funding?


What happens when the HNS wants its extra £350m a week?


What happens when the farmers want funding at the same level as the EU provided?


What happens to the infrastructure programmes that were going to be part-funded by the EU?


What happens to the environment when EU nature funding dries up?


What happens when the civil service has to be expanded to unpick all of the legislation at national and devolved level AND negotiate trade deals?


What happens when the government has to pay lawyers a fortune to deal with the legal and constitutional issues that are going to take years to unravel?


Where is all this magic money going to come from?

Oh, I know. Known unknowns, unknown unknowns and all that.

A Tory government starts behaving like Jeremy Corbin would like to.
Viva el socialismo.

tara747

Remain

qwert_yuiop wrote: »

Oh, I know. Known unknowns, unknown unknowns and all that.

A Tory government starts behaving like Jeremy Corbin would like to.
Viva el socialismo.

That doesn't answer my question.


Truth is, the UK can't afford Brexit.

qwert_yuiop

I'd say it probably can, if it goes for an extreme low tax, low wage model. Whether that constitutes "affording it" or a good idea is the point.
When the Irish free state broke from the rest of the U.K., and pursued mad cap economic practices like selling livestock to Germany instead of GB and promoting tobacco growing in Carlow to avoid importing from Virginia (USA, not Cavan), the economy crashed. It was functional, up to a point, just poor. The U.K. Of course is a much bigger entity, but who knows what'll happen? I see mr Blair is back on the scene, declaring remainers must resist Brexit. He could be right.

tara747

Remain

qwert_yuiop wrote: »

I'd say it probably can, if it goes for an extreme low tax, low wage model. Whether that constitutes "affording it" or a good idea is the point.
When the Irish free state broke from the rest of the U.K., and pursued mad cap economic practices like selling livestock to Germany instead of GB and promoting tobacco growing in Carlow to avoid importing from Virginia (USA, not Cavan), the economy crashed. It was functional, up to a point, just poor. The U.K. Of course is a much bigger entity, but who knows what'll happen? I see mr Blair is back on the scene, declaring remainers must resist Brexit. He could be right.

Well, he's saying that if public opinion changes, then maybe Brexit won't happen. Which is true. But public opinion will depend on whether the economy tanks.


I agree that (if Brexit happens) the UK is likely to go down the route you outline at the start of your comment, which would be disastrous for everyone but the rich...

x12yhp

Quite agree Tara. From the very start, the exit proponents have almost totally ignored logical questions like those you pose. They accused remain campaigners of running project fear but the truth was that leave voters were swayed by their fear of immigrants, their fear of the EU taking money our not getting value, fear that the EU would control them.

In recent news, Apple have put prices up. Let's ignore whether costs have actually risen and get to the facts - prices are going up because of Brexit. Our opinions about justifications are irrelevant, it is happening and will continue to do so. Unless you are in a position to raise your prices you are going to be losing out. Since most people are paid a salary, they can't do this. You can be certain that pay rises are going to be harder to come by than 6 months ago. So that means, as above, low pay and price inflation. That means your average person, probably those most central to the exit result, are going to take the brunt of the negative impacts as they will see an appreciable decrease in disposable income and corresponding drop in living standard. Do you really think that the wealthy are going to compromise when they can simply raise prices and freeze workers pay? Do you think Boris Johnston is going to be less able to take a nice holiday or two?

No, the fact is that there is an inevitable pain coming and the Brexit campaigners failed to mention that it was 'you', their target voters, who is going to bear the brunt if it.

qwert_yuiop

Indeed this is why we elect people who supposedly know these things rather than relying on referenda to make decisions by popular vote. The amount of ill informed nonsense and disingenuous rubbish (from both sides, it has to be admitted) was remarkable, and plenty of the stuff written in the papers was just plain wrong. I thought the Scottish referendum had marked the low point of democracy when some bloke I met on the train in England told me he'd voted for independence because the local hospital was badly funded and David Cameron was keeping the oil price low, but the brexit one was worse. One deluded Armagh farmer told me produce prices would go up once the uk stopped importing food. This is what MPs are supposed to be for - to stop Joe public making decisions counter to his own interest. Representative democracy.

motorguy

Remain

tara747 wrote: »

That doesn't answer my question.


Truth is, the UK can't afford Brexit.

Cant afford to stay in, cant afford to leave? :rolleyes:

motorguy

Remain

x12yhp wrote: »

- prices are going up because of Brexit.

Prices are going up because the currency gamblers that we call the stock market dont see the pound as a dead cert for them to bet on.

The stock market doesnt like uncertainty. The pound has dropped on perceived uncertainty. No other reason

x12yhp

motorguy wrote: »

Prices are going up because the currency gamblers that we call the stock market dont see the pound as a dead cert for them to bet on.

The stock market doesnt like uncertainty. The pound has dropped on perceived uncertainty. No other reason

Sorry. No. That is dillusional nonsense. That is like saying that you got fat because of all that chocolate and trying to deny that sugar has anything to do with it! The currency speculation is a result, not least of he cause. Brexit gave rise to the situation and currency speculation resulted. BREXIT IS THE ROOT CAUSE.

My dad complains like you do. It is other people's greed causing this. Yes, but what idiot thought about it and concluded that people wouldn't try to make money out of it. It was a foregone conclusion that this would occur but lots of people seemed to think that the lamb in the midst of the pack of wolves would be safe. The world should work that way but it has not done so for thousands of years and it was idiocy to think it would here!