BREXIT - Why?

uk1

PenguinJim wrote: »

Unfortunately, you're missing the bigger picture (sorry - I know you've been told that a lot).

The UK provided money for my education and my healthcare. I have two degrees from the UK. The UK has invested in people like me heavily - honest, law-abiding, educated, qualified, skilled tax-payers (and let's not forget young, tall and handsome! :cool:). And despite that, they're driving us away.

Staying in the EU would be a reason for us to remain in the UK, not to leave. It would provide us with freer travel and work rights. It would make leaving the UK a heavier and more-likely-permanent move.

If the UK wants to keep people like me, with our skills and our taxes, it will need to stay in the EU. Otherwise it will just be left with people like you.

Let's not forget, last week you mistook the EU's plans for requiring complementary olive oil in restaurants to be correctly labelled and in tamper-proof packaging for some sort of ban on olive oil in restaurants. It's because of these uninformed knee-jerk reactions to directives that we still have those dusty bowls of x-years-old allegedly-olive oil.

I've seen similar comments from people complaining about the EU wanting to ban the name "sausage", to replace it with "emulsified high-fat offal tubes" - yes, even recently (although I suppose it makes more sense that it was recently, considering the age of Yes, Minister).

I wonder how many of these you still believe to be true? :A

If I am missing the bigger picture it is only because if I have understood your point, it is contradictory.

You have basically said that we have paid for your education, your point being that if we lose you we would have lost that investment. You then say that if we leave the EU and make your movement out of the UK more difficult for you, then we will lose you.

We lose you either way don't we? I am happy to make it more difficult for you.

With respect to your comment:

Let's not forget, last week you mistook the EU's plans for requiring complementary olive oil in restaurants to be correctly labelled and in tamper-proof packaging for some sort of ban on olive oil in restaurants. It's because of these uninformed knee-jerk reactions to directives that we still have those dusty bowls of x-years-old allegedly-olive oil.

....... you seemed to have missed the line where I said ....

It was only after an outcry they reversed it

Perhaps you should curtail your own uninformed knee-jerk reactions to posts and read them properly first?


Jeff

uk1

Linton wrote: »

It seems what you really want is an EU with stronger enforcement powers. There I would agree with you.But politics is the art of the possible, one step at a time.

Without international ageement of standards we are forced into a fight to the bottom. Within the EU progess can be made, outside it we are at the mercy of the multinationals and the large unified markets of the US, the remaining EU and at some stage China.

It seems that you are content to have the regulations without enforcement.

Linton

uk1 wrote: »

It seems that you are content to have the regulations without enforcement.

A quick search on Google shows that according to Compassion in World Farming the UK advocated EU ban on battery cages has been largely enforced except in Greece (as of 2014). I dont think that Compassion in World Farming is likely to play down the issue.

uk1

Linton wrote: »

A quick search on Google shows that according to Compassion in World Farming the UK advocated EU ban on battery cages has been largely enforced except in Greece (as of 2014). I dont think that Compassion in World Farming is likely to play down the issue.

You are missing the bigger picture though aren't you?

All of these EU regulations are largely reliant on self-policing and the quality of that self-policing is so variable it renders many or most of the restrictive regulations not only useless but they make compliant countries more expensive than non-compliant markets and therefore counter-prodictively gives those badly or unpoliced markets a competitive edge and they expand more quickly thus in your example more animals suffer as a result.

It is an unintended consequence that with open border trading and variable compliance of ethical farming a larger market is created that rewards more animal suffering at the cost of those doing the "right thing".

So whilst the theory places the heart in the right place, in practice it isn't as polarised in terms of goodness you would have it is it? This I think summarises many of the British farmers complaints about EU welfare regulations isn't it?

Jeff

bigfreddiel

jimjames wrote: »

Probably not. But they weren't created by specific, known actions. How can the disruption & unknowns from leaving do anything other than negatively impact the economy short term. Long term it could go either way but short term is has to lower growth.

Hmmmm, sounds a bit like 'wrong sort of snow' often used by BR in the winter! fj

maxie014

PenguinJim wrote: »

Unfortunately, you're missing the bigger picture (sorry - I know you've been told that a lot).

The UK provided money for my education and my healthcare. I have two degrees from the UK. The UK has invested in people like me heavily - honest, law-abiding, educated, qualified, skilled tax-payers (and let's not forget young, tall and handsome! :cool:). And despite that, they're driving us away.

Staying in the EU would be a reason for us to remain in the UK, not to leave. It would provide us with freer travel and work rights. It would make leaving the UK a heavier and more-likely-permanent move.

If the UK wants to keep people like me, with our skills and our taxes, it will need to stay in the EU. Otherwise it will just be left with people like you.

Let's not forget, last week you mistook the EU's plans for requiring complementary olive oil in restaurants to be correctly labelled and in tamper-proof packaging for some sort of ban on olive oil in restaurants. It's because of these uninformed knee-jerk reactions to directives that we still have those dusty bowls of x-years-old allegedly-olive oil.

I've seen similar comments from people complaining about the EU wanting to ban the name "sausage", to replace it with "emulsified high-fat offal tubes" - yes, even recently (although I suppose it makes more sense that it was recently, considering the age of Yes, Minister).

I wonder how many of these you still believe to be true? :A

Got to laugh at this high opinion of oneself,in my time ive seen many a dozen employees who thought their employer couldnt manage without leave,from top men to bottom.
They were all every single one of them never missed at all,not one iota,things just carried on as if theyd never been there.
So feel free to take your super skills to europe,im sure the rest of us left behind in the uk will somehow manage without you

uk1

maxie014 wrote: »

Got to laugh at this high opinion of oneself,in my time ive seen many a dozen employees who thought their employer couldnt manage without leave,from top men to bottom.
They were all every single one of them never missed at all,not one iota,things just carried on as if theyd never been there.
So feel free to take your super skills to europe,im sure the rest of us left behind in the uk will somehow manage without you

I re-read that earlier post several times and found it puzzling.

Basically, I was being told by a highly educated poster that I was being thick because he was offering the UK a choice of him leaving, or him leaving with us making it easier for him to leave and that for one of those options I would be sorry. :huh:

As I read it "heads I win and tails you lose".


Jeff

savings_my_hobby

lessavyfav wrote: »

I look at the people who are for Brexit and whether I align with their values.

Rupert Murdoch, Nigel Farage, Donald Trump, Nick Griffin, Marine Le Pen?

No thanks.

So war criminal Blair is more your speed?

Also Trump said categorically he does not care either way and he is not getting involved.

savings_my_hobby

maxie014 wrote: »

Why is the uk so great to invest in,we dont have the euro,we are across the channel,weve got the brexit vote coming.
So why did those companies still choose to locate in the uk,not germany,belgium,france? the epicentre of the european dream.

We also speak English, unlike sooo many migrants that have "enriched" our society.

savings_my_hobby

BananaRepublic wrote: »

I think older more experienced/cynical people tend to be pro-Brexit, as you suggest. The young are more idealistic, they see the ideal of cooperation, harmony, and general loveliness as a 'good thing'.

I do worry about the lack of any real discussion about the impact of leaving be it good or bad. What will happen to the 3 million or so EU citizens already here? What will happen to Brits overseas, especially in Spain?

I have to say I am rather unmoved by the destiny of ex-pats.

The situation with the EU citizens is that they will stay in the UK if they came here legally, so 99.99% should stay, what i'm uncertain about is the 2 year transitional period after we leave.

I just hope it will not be a mad rush to move to Britain while they still can, public services are fully stretched and I don't see any volunteers offering to pay extra tax (as much to do with poor wage growth over the last decade as any ideological reason I would suspect).