Brexit vote

robin61

If I voted to remain the only reason for doing so would be because I had been frightened into it by worst case scenario economic predictions.
For me the price we are paying for ' free' trade which is all we ever wanted is now too great. Why on earth have we got to accept a lot of interference in the way we govern our country just to get this is beyond me. The Brussels bureaucrats clearly have no intention of offering any meaningful change.
There are risks both ways. I am not daft enough to think that Brexit will lead us to a land of milk and honey. It won' t there will be challenges but then that is also true if we remain.
Bottom line is that i cannot think of very much I like about the EU but I can think of a lot I do not like.
It has to be Brexit for me.

uk1

atush wrote: »

Cant pay for guarantees if the rug is pulled out from under your feet.

If the brexiteers are right, and we are going to the land of milk and honey, they could afford to keep it.

If the remains are right, and the economy tanks, all spending plans will have to go back to the drawing board for more cuts.

I think you may have missed the point.

General elections are largely decided by pensioners or people close to pension age. Personally I see no serious manifesto promising to remove the triple lock being a winning one ..... do you?

There is only a chance of ths happening of somewhere between extremely low and zero within the next few years if at all, and I think most people "get that". And the more the remainers keep repeating the same garbage answers irrespective of the question actually asked, and the more threats from the Germans we hear, and the more rediculous gloom we're promised, the more stubborn Brits will become and the more likely an out result. And the least likely group you can bullsh1t or bully are the more experienced group in society.

It rather shows how desperate he has become because he is actually increasing the out vote rather than reducing it.

Jeff

downshifter98

I tend to agree re the triple lock - just not with Cameroon using it as a threat.

The pictures of Maggie just demonstrate how much we were all duped back then.

Black holes will continue to appear whether in Europe or out. To imply staying in guarantees financial sunny uplands is disingenuous.

System

Vote cast last week. This annoyed me a lot:

http://i.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/2016/06/10/13/351FC90100000578-0-image-a-37_1465560778460.jpg

uk1

downshifter98 wrote: »

I tend to agree re the triple lock - just not with Cameroon using it as a threat.

The pictures of Maggie just demonstrate how much we were all duped back then.

Black holes will continue to appear whether in Europe or out. To imply staying in guarantees financial sunny uplands is disingenuous.

The remain front it seems to me has not really conveyed an impression of how much better things will be if we remain, only how much worst it will be if we leave, but because there has been so much of it, I think that they have overcooked it and whilst at first this worked, it is now a sad old tune on a continuous loop. The immigration issue has now polarised and so have many other issues,

I also think the leavers are more pragmatc and recognise that there may be a difficult few years until things stabilise, but also believe that unbridled in the long run we will do better than being wheighed down by this disintegrating collossus. I think it is also dawning on many that our treatment if we stay and the confidence of these people who "rule" us is a terrible thing to contemplate. I think it is also dawning on people is that what the real thing on the leading exiters minds is that the game is up for all of the EU if we leave because the French and German population hates the EU even more than us. Basically it is the first domino.

I also think there has been a misunderstanding of the comparitive sound volumes. I think the remainers have been vocal but I think the exiters have simply said to themselves quietly "we do get it, we do understnad uncertainty and we believe that uncertainty is better than certain badness," and I think they do that quietly.

it is my sense that the volume of doom has increased doubt in the argument. It is my sense that the more they heap more dung on the more the mve to exit. Stubbornness and not being bullied I think is deep within our genes.

Jeff

BobQ

uk1 wrote: »

I see that the Prime Minister is to tell pensioners today that they will lose the triple lock if we brexit.

Jeff

What he said is that post Brexit our GDP will decline for a period which will require more austerity. The triple lock is one example of what might be unaffordable in a few months time. The same may be true of investments. Not an issue for the short term but if you plan to retire in say 5 years it might seriously damage your wealth.

uk1

BobQ wrote: »

What he said is that post Brexit our GDP will decline for a period which will require more austerity. The triple lock is one example of what might be unaffordable in a few months time. The same may be true of investments. Not an issue for the short term but if you plan to retire in say 5 years it might seriously damage your wealth.

I understood perfectly what he said, thanks.



Jeff

BobQ

downshifter98 wrote: »

The comments re the triple lock are the surest sign yet that Cameron is panicing - I'm a lifelong tory voter but to have a tory leader being so negative about his own country is shocking - may Maggie rise up and haunt his sorry !!! for ever more. Sure - perhaps there will be a financial black hole if we leave the EU but to suggest that it will primarily affect pensioners and the unwell is pitiful. He should hang his fat head in shame.

Jst because his statements are unparalleled in your memory does not mean he is wrong.

The impact on pensioners matters to them and it is one source of Government spending that could be cut. Or we could put your taxes up

BobQ

robin61 wrote: »

If I voted to remain the only reason for doing so would be because I had been frightened into it by worst case scenario economic predictions.
For me the price we are paying for ' free' trade which is all we ever wanted is now too great. Why on earth have we got to accept a lot of interference in the way we govern our country just to get this is beyond me. The Brussels bureaucrats clearly have no intention of offering any meaningful change.
There are risks both ways. I am not daft enough to think that Brexit will lead us to a land of milk and honey. It won' t there will be challenges but then that is also true if we remain.
Bottom line is that i cannot think of very much I like about the EU but I can think of a lot I do not like.
It has to be Brexit for me.

The level of ignorance on these issues is quite shocking, I fully understand why you will support Brexit, largely because you think you are being frightened by the remain views. In fact you are being conned into believing that the truth is intend to frghten you. In fact the truth is meant to inform you. Even Leave admits that leaving will lead to a short term drop in GDP. What they do not tell you is how long short term is. When unemployment and inflation rise after Brexit and the trade agreements do not materialise, then you can be frightened and you can only blame yourself for that.

As to Brussels bureacracy we spend 6% of the EU budget on Brussels, our politicians decide on what the EU does. The Commission is merely the civil service. UK civil servants put forward ideas to Ministers all the time but Ministers take the decisions. The fact that you probably do not know the name of the MEP you elected to represent you is frankly your fault, not the EU's.

I get really amused when MEPs like Hannon invite us to vote for Bexit and sack them. Hannon has spend over a decade taking the fruits of this so called bureaucacy, now he wants to stop it.

BobQ

uk1 wrote: »

I think you may have missed the point.

General elections are largely decided by pensioners or people close to pension age. Personally I see no serious manifesto promising to remove the triple lock being a winning one ..... do you?

There is only a chance of ths happening of somewhere between extremely low and zero within the next few years if at all, and I think most people "get that". And the more the remainers keep repeating the same garbage answers irrespective of the question actually asked, and the more threats from the Germans we hear, and the more rediculous gloom we're promised, the more stubborn Brits will become and the more likely an out result. And the least likely group you can bullsh1t or bully are the more experienced group in society.

It rather shows how desperate he has become because he is actually increasing the out vote rather than reducing it.

Jeff

Personally I think that the triple lock will go and Brexit will be a great excuse. That said if the Pensioners really are voting in their droves to Leave, it seems fair they should reap what they have sown. Something the younger generation might well support since it is their future the pensioner generation will have damaged.