Do people think native English people will be forced to move to out of London?

Rich2808

Generali wrote: »

Out of interest, how did these non-white slum-makers afford to price out decent people of any colour that wanted to live in Harrow do you think?

Did they say non white - quite a lot will be white Europeans fleeing mass youth unemployment in their own countries!

Just under one third of households in the capital now claim housing benefit - without which they simply couldn't stay in London, rising levels of private renting due to buy to let, rapid turnover of population, HMOs - once family homes can now be occupied by ten and more people etc etc. All factors which basically drag down areas - as few people have a long term stake in their home or area.

Essentially you lose a sense of community - why should anyone care about their area when they might be forced put in two months by their landlord.

cells

Rich2808 wrote: »

I think what you might describe as white British born and bred Londoners have already left in droves.

Between 2001 and 2011 the population of London rose by 1.5 million but the white British population fell by a net 600,000 according to the census. A few of the professional middle classes occupying some of the nicer areas but a complete disappearance in many other areas - only the outer fringes of boroughs like Havering and Bromley and Kingston now bear any relationship to the demographics if the early 1990s.

As John Cleese said - and he was wildly criticised for doing so - London is no longer an English city. In my area I would probably say there were more young Spaniards or Poles or Romanians - than young white Brits.

Whether you like it or not it's a matter of fact - and many who don't have spoken with their feet and left. House prices are only one factor in this.

At what point does a migrant become a local?

There has to be a number as all our ancestors at some stage came to the UK.

Also does the number vary depending on what a person looks like?

My neighbors are a French family the kids have no accent and you could not tell they were not English. If they didn't tell anyone then they would be 'natives' as nobody could tell the difference. So within one generation with no accent they are natives.

But what about a black or Arab family. Some have been here for 10 generations and speak no other language and don't have any foreign connections. Are they natives now?

CLAPTON

cells wrote: »

At what point does a migrant become a local?

There has to be a number as all our ancestors at some stage came to the UK.

Also does the number vary depending on what a person looks like?

My neighbors are a French family the kids have no accent and you could not tell they were not English. If they didn't tell anyone then they would be 'natives' as nobody could tell the difference. So within one generation with no accent they are natives.

But what about a black or Arab family. Some have been here for 10 generations and speak no other language and don't have any foreign connections. Are they natives now?

the issue is now and not the past.

Your argument are very valid if you believe in unlimited movement of people into the UK for all time.

If however, ones thinks that there is a practical distinction between people not already here and those already here, then we need to stop immigration for the greater good of the people already here.

Rich2808

cells wrote: »

At what point does a migrant become a local?

There has to be a number as all our ancestors at some stage came to the UK.

Also does the number vary depending on what a person looks like?

My neighbors are a French family the kids have no accent and you could not tell they were not English. If they didn't tell anyone then they would be 'natives' as nobody could tell the difference. So within one generation with no accent they are natives.

But what about a black or Arab family. Some have been here for 10 generations and speak no other language and don't have any foreign connections. Are they natives now?

I am sure you have lovely neighbours.

I merely observe the changing demographic trends. It's quite peculiar that much of the world seems desperate to come and live in London but so many born and bred Londoners are leaving in their hundreds of thousands.

Without benefits one third of Londoners wouldn't be able to live there - while net contributors who pay their own way are driven out by high house prices. Not a good mix long term. Should the rest of the UK have to pay up to fund more benefits, housing and infrastructure to solve the failures of governments in other countries?

chewmylegoff

cells wrote: »

At what point does a migrant become a local?

When they start blaming more recent immigrants for ruining the place?

cashbackproblems

Generali wrote: »

Out of interest, how did these non-white slum-makers afford to price out decent people of any colour that wanted to live in Harrow do you think?

Housing benefit? Its not about pricing them out, they chose to move due to the immigrants creating a slum type high street. This has a knock on effect all up the chain, supply and demand.

dktreesea

cells wrote: »

At what point does a migrant become a local?

There has to be a number as all our ancestors at some stage came to the UK.

Also does the number vary depending on what a person looks like?

My neighbors are a French family the kids have no accent and you could not tell they were not English. If they didn't tell anyone then they would be 'natives' as nobody could tell the difference. So within one generation with no accent they are natives.

But what about a black or Arab family. Some have been here for 10 generations and speak no other language and don't have any foreign connections. Are they natives now?

Depends what you mean by native. They will never be native the way white Britons whose ancestors trace back on this land, for hundreds, maybe even thousands of years, are native, unless they have the blood of a native Briton somewhere on their line. White Britons in that category are similar to Aborigines in Australia or Native Americans in the States.


Foreigners who have moved here, even several generations ago, and regardless of race, are still immigrants the same way white people are immigrants in places like New Zealand, Australia, Canada and the UK. Just because someone is American, born in the States, maybe even 15th generation, doesn't make them native people, if no one on their ancestral line has had a native American partner.


This is from Wikipedia:


...Humans probably returned to the region of the British/Irish peninsula about 14,700 years ago as the Ice Age started to end.[11] Eighty percent of the DNA of most Britons, according to modern research, has been passed down from a few thousand individuals who hunted in this region after the last Ice Age...

Race doesn't matter. For example, if you have someone, born here, one quarter white, that white person descended from the earliest post ice age inhabitants of Britain, then they are native to Britain the same way someone who is part Maori, Aborigine, Native American/Canadian is regarded as "native", in NZ, Australia and the US/Canada.

dktreesea

Rich2808 wrote: »

I am sure you have lovely neighbours.

I merely observe the changing demographic trends. It's quite peculiar that much of the world seems desperate to come and live in London but so many born and bred Londoners are leaving in their hundreds of thousands.

Without benefits one third of Londoners wouldn't be able to live there - while net contributors who pay their own way are driven out by high house prices. Not a good mix long term. Should the rest of the UK have to pay up to fund more benefits, housing and infrastructure to solve the failures of governments in other countries?

Some of those who leave are presumably those who cash in, take their million quid and move to somewhere like Spain/Australia/the States/Portugal/ anywhere else in the world that tickles their fancy. A million quid would probably buy you a better place to live even in Sydney, which has expensive real estate compared to most of the rest of the world, than in London.


As to the rest, have you seen the rest of the UK, compared to London? What's not to like about places like Brighton, Bournemouth (I wish!) anywhere in Cornwall, Bristol, Llandudno, Oban, Edinburgh, Leicester, Newcastle compared to London? Mortgage free, with £200k and counting in your pocket? I'm from London but I value my lungs - OMG when I first came back from a long stint overseas, visiting for the first time and washing my hair out that night - the water ran black. That gritty feeling in your eyes? That's air pollution.


Some of those places you wouldn't even need to change your job for if you work in London. Once the trains are fully electrified, a journey from Bristol to London with take 1 hour 20 minutes.

Generali

cashbackproblems wrote: »

Housing benefit? Its not about pricing them out, they chose to move due to the immigrants creating a slum type high street. This has a knock on effect all up the chain, supply and demand.

Is housing benefit only available to non-whites? I thought all the whites had been chased from the area.

cashbackproblems

Generali wrote: »

Is housing benefit only available to non-whites? I thought all the whites had been chased from the area.

No but the the non-whites who are moving into the area I am discussing are all benefit type of people..what you been there?