Do people think native English people will be forced to move to out of London?

Linton

CLAPTON wrote: »

....
Are you in favour of unlimited and uncontrolled immigration?
If not what would your criteria be for entry?

You are asking the wrong question or rather starting from the wrong place. Given a global economy large scale movement of populations is both inevitable and desirable. Efforts to control it have been pretty unsuccessful worldwide. As a counter example I guess one could quote Japan where the language and culture make it unattractive to immigrants. But Japan is suffering from an ageing population and has been stagnating economically for many years.

A true crackdown on illegal immigration would necessitate a level of policing many of us would find unacceptable - people who look like they might be illegal immigrants being stopped on a regular basis and asked to show their papers? People who have lived in this country since early childhood being sent "home" to a country whose language they dont speak? With the global economy increasing numbers of people will marry foreigners. Should this be banned? Or should the UK spouse have to live abroad?

From an economic point of view movement of populations is broadly desirable as people go from where they arent needed to where they are, thus improving efficiency and the immigrants well-being. So the important question is not how do we stop large scale immigration, but rather how to we live with it minimising local problems.

CLAPTON

Linton wrote: »

You are asking the wrong question or rather starting from the wrong place. Given a global economy large scale movement of populations is both inevitable and desirable. Efforts to control it have been pretty unsuccessful worldwide. As a counter example I guess one could quote Japan where the language and culture make it unattractive to immigrants. But Japan is suffering from an ageing population and has been stagnating economically for many years.

A true crackdown on illegal immigration would necessitate a level of policing many of us would find unacceptable - people who look like they might be illegal immigrants being stopped on a regular basis and asked to show their papers? People who have lived in this country since early childhood being sent "home" to a country whose language they dont speak? With the global economy increasing numbers of people will marry foreigners. Should this be banned? Or should the UK spouse have to live abroad?

From an economic point of view movement of populations is broadly desirable as people go from where they arent needed to where they are, thus improving efficiency and the immigrants well-being. So the important question is not how do we stop large scale immigration, but rather how to we live with it minimising local problems.

whilst I disagree with virtually everything above

do you support the unlimited and uncontrolled free movement of people and in particular to the UK?

Linton

CLAPTON wrote: »

We are where we are.
If you have a practical solution to spreading the population out more evenly over the country then please spell it out.

...

How about for a start....

Increase business rates in London. No more massively expensive transport infrastructure projects in London. Spend the money on greatly improving the transport infrastructure of Birmingham and the northern cities and elsewhere outside London.

Linton

CLAPTON wrote: »

whilst I disagree with virtually everything above

do you support the unlimited and uncontrolled free movement of people and in particular to the UK?

I believe it will eventually happen (decades? centuries?) unless the UK, or more likely just England, is going to be a minor and impoverished irrelevance . The problem is what happens in the meantime. If your total policy is to simply stop the free movement then I am against it. If strong control of immigration is a short term tactic in a wider strategy then lets see the wider strategy.

CLAPTON

Linton wrote: »

I believe it will eventually happen (decades? centuries?) unless the UK, or more likely just England, is going to be a minor and impoverished irrelevance . The problem is what happens in the meantime. If your total policy is to simply stop the free movement then I am against it. If strong control of immigration is a short term tactic in a wider strategy then lets see the wider strategy.

my 'strategy' is to control total immigration to the 10s of thousand because it is in the best interests of the people of the UK.

if in the future circmumstance change, then so will my views.

lisyloo

Do you think there is any scenario at all where commuting into a city will become easy and quick and people can live less densely?

Yes I can perceive it's possible.
A fast transport system requires a dedicated route (like a railway) rather than a shared route (like a road).
Also the ability for individual cars/carriages to peel off rather than the whole train of carriages having to stop at every destination.
Perhaps we have to use 3D space rather than a mostly 2D plane that we have at the moment.


I'm not sure who "cares" though.
I mean you and I and lots of the population care about the issue, but I'm certain the shareholders/boards of companies don't care that much about the commutes of individuals and I'm not sure politicians have it as a high priority issue.
Lots of people suggest for example my NASDAQ employer moving out of London. I can assure you that the US CEO and US board don't even have it on their priority list, let alone high up, so I'm not sure the political will is there for the investment into radical transport infrastructure - just let supply and demand sort it out.

CLAPTON

lisyloo wrote: »

Yes I can perceive it's possible.
A fast transport system requires a dedicated route (like a railway) rather than a shared route (like a road).
Also the ability for individual cars/carriages to peel off rather than the whole train of carriages having to stop at every destination.
Perhaps we have to use 3D space rather than a mostly 2D plane that we have at the moment.


I'm not sure who "cares" though.
I mean you and I and lots of the population care about the issue, but I'm certain the shareholders/boards of companies don't care that much about the commutes of individuals and I'm not sure politicians have it as a high priority issue.
Lots of people suggest for example my NASDAQ employer moving out of London. I can assure you that the US CEO and US board don't even have it on their priority list, let alone high up, so I'm not sure the political will is there for the investment into radical transport infrastructure - just let supply and demand sort it out.

I've no idea of the averages but lots of people outside London have quite long commutes

edinburgher

I lived in London (as a pesky Scottish migrant) and there were winners and losers among the 'native English' people who I worked with (the ones who made comments along the lines of 'I'm a Londoner, my favver was a Londoner, his favver was a Londoner').

The people I worked with were on pretty low incomes for London (say £20,000-£40,000) and (as with the rest of the country) were basically divided into the housing haves and have nots.

People who had bought 30 years ago were doing fine - running down tiny mortgages, enjoying the amenities of the capital with few liabilities and expecting to continue doing so during retirement. A few had been helped out by the bank of mum and dad and had cashed in on their gains, moving to mortgage free properties in other parts of England and Scotland.

The younger crowd seemed grudgingly accepting of their (poor) chances of ever owning anywhere near the centre and had started moving out to your Croydons etc. (which have, in turn, seen significant price rises).

lisyloo

I've no idea of the averages but lots of people outside London have quite long commutes

Yes - people like to live near their families especially if they are grandparents, need grandparents, are carers, have kids in particular schools, have a spouse in a job, like their home etc.


If we had faster transport available, it doesn't (for example) help the issue that you still might want to live close to your grandkids because your wife looks after them everyday, so it wouldn't be a panacea.