Do people think native English people will be forced to move to out of London?

mwpt

Filo25 wrote: »

No I don't, I assumed you did as you posted the claim.

Personal experience is that I have come across people from the EU working in a large variety of roles, hence my surprise.

https://fullfact.org/immigration/do-eu-immigrants-contribute-134-every-1-they-receive/

More recent research exists

This research has since been updated, but the figures largely aren’t equivalent to the ones quoted above.

The latest findings estimate that recent immigrants from the 10 countries that joined the EU in 2004 (mainly eastern European) contributed £1.12 for every £1 received. Those from the rest of the EU put in £1.64 for every £1.

cells

contributions are difficult to quantify exactly because there are secondary territory and even more layers of impact.

Personally I think that migrants even poor ones will be long term net contributors if you could look at the whole system (which you can not). Also its always better to be in a growing company or country as the local benefit more from the 'promotions'. Of course the worst locals can become resentful if they see the newcomers promoted before they are but in general the locals where possible are promoted first.

They cost nowt to bring up (schooling and NHS) and they are more likely to die younger. Their offspring I consider local babies so its no question of being a net contribution or not. If you look longer term they are immigrants for 1 generation and local offspring for 1000 generations so even if it was a net cost spread between a thousand generations its a rounding error

ElsieMonkey

cashbackproblems wrote: »

Its happened In my area (Harrow) white people have totally moved out over the last decade and now you see no English in the whole borough, taken over by immigrants and Harrow now looks like a slum (excluding North Harrow). I speak as a non-white

Agree, I live in a flat in Pinner and know exactly.

mwpt

ElsieMonkey wrote: »

Agree, I live in a flat in Pinner and know exactly.

I find it hard to understand why people would pay £400k for a flat in a "slum" though.

http://www.rightmove.co.uk/property-for-sale/property-58926659.html

CLAPTON

cells wrote: »

. Their offspring I consider local babies so its no question of being a net contribution or not. If you look longer term they are immigrants for 1 generation and local offspring for 1000 generations so even if it was a net cost spread between a thousand generations its a rounding error

I guess that every murdering scumbag would, on this basis, be a net contributor.

ElsieMonkey

mwpt wrote: »

I find it hard to understand why people would pay £400k for a flat in a "slum" though.

http://www.rightmove.co.uk/property-for-sale/property-58926659.html

Not sure what you're getting at??? Pinner is a lovely area (nicest and most expensive part of borough of Harrow). Location location location, that's what people pay for. Harrow town centre, south Harrow etc. on the other hand are slums to put in frankly. Prices there are cheaper than Pinner, but not by much.

ElsieMonkey

I was born in and have always lived in London. Born in Hammersmith and have lived all over London - Acton, Ealing, Harrow, Southwark. But I am selling up and leaving London. It took me a long time to get my head around this since being a Londoner feels like a massive part of my identity. For ages I refused to be one of those statistics, one of those left little choice but to be priced out of their home town.

I don't believe anyone has the right to live anywhere in particular - if you can't afford it you have to move. So, it does annoy me when I hear of council Right to Buy schemes in areas of London where me and my partner, both as full time average/above average workers have no chance in hell of ever being able to afford to live in even if we wanted to. Why should those in council properties have the "right to buy"? I thought the point on council properties was to help those in need have a roof over their heads? If they can afford to buy then they shouldn't be in a council house! Being given the chance to buy in prime location at a reduced price and pocket the difference when selling on in future is just down right unfair when others work, scrimp and save to have a property anywhere in London - their home town.

So anyway, we're fed up, priced out (unless we want to be mortgaged up to our eyeballs and have 0 quality of life/no space) and are cashing in and moving away. We feel very lucky to have been born here, have got on the property ladder when we did, and benefit from the rising prices in order to fund our move away. However, we have not been born in to money, have been forever scrimping and saving and have made calculated strategic decisions about what we bought when and where property wise which has got us to this point.

I'm 34 and London is a vastly different place than it was just 10 years ago. I know cities are always evolving but London isn't evolving for the better as far as I'm concerned. The suburbs, like where I live now in the Harrow borough, is full of people who just use it as a base to commute to the city, like most of London suburbia. You get as close to the city as your money will allow. Living in no man's land. Always on the outside looking in. The area and circumstance picked you, you didn't pick it, and as a result no one gives a s**t about who and what is on their doorstep. There's no sense of community.

Unless you rely on the council to fund your existence, are rich, or are happy to live a million to one bedroom, there really is no longevity yo your existence in London. We want to start a family, and have to move away from our home town to do so, in order to afford it.

mwpt

ElsieMonkey wrote: »

I was born in and have always lived in London. Born in Hammersmith and have lived all over London - Acton, Ealing, Harrow, Southwark. But I am selling up and leaving London. It took me a long time to get my head around this since being a Londoner feels like a massive part of my identity. For ages I refused to be one of those statistics, one of those left little choice but to be priced out of their home town.

I don't believe anyone has the right to live anywhere in particular - if you can't afford it you have to move. So, it does annoy me when I hear of council Right to Buy schemes in areas of London where me and my partner, both as full time average/above average workers have no chance in hell of ever being able to afford to live in even if we wanted to. Why should those in council properties have the "right to buy"? I thought the point on council properties was to help those in need have a roof over their heads? If they can afford to buy then they shouldn't be in a council house! Being given the chance to buy in prime location at a reduced price and pocket the difference when selling on in future is just down right unfair when others work, scrimp and save to have a property anywhere in London - their home town.

So anyway, we're fed up, priced out (unless we want to be mortgaged up to our eyeballs and have 0 quality of life/no space) and are cashing in and moving away. We feel very lucky to have been born here, have got on the property ladder when we did, and benefit from the rising prices in order to fund our move away. However, we have not been born in to money, have been forever scrimping and saving and have made calculated strategic decisions about what we bought when and where property wise which has got us to this point.

I'm 34 and London is a vastly different place than it was just 10 years ago. I know cities are always evolving but London isn't evolving for the better as far as I'm concerned. The suburbs, like where I live now in the Harrow borough, is full of people who just use it as a base to commute to the city, like most of London suburbia. You get as close to the city as your money will allow. Living in no man's land. Always on the outside looking in. The area and circumstance picked you, you didn't pick it, and as a result no one gives a s**t about who and what is on their doorstep. There's no sense of community.

Unless you rely on the council to fund your existence, are rich, or are happy to live a million to one bedroom, there really is no longevity yo your existence in London. We want to start a family, and have to move away from our home town to do so, in order to afford it.

I agree with a lot of what you say actually.

Particularly about the right to buy. It is about as unfair a policy I can think of. Homes that were meant to house people in bad situations but turned into a lotto ticket for the select few at the expense of the tax payer while we still can't house the lower paid properly.

I am sorry that the London you loved has changed. I first came to this city back in 1997 for a few years, then left again. But back again a bit later. I agree, it has changed a lot but also, I was younger then, the things I did were different, the places I went and people I socialised with were different. I stayed in Earls Court hostels in those days as a young back packer for example and the "vibe" in the city was just amazing. But of course I'm not exposed to that any more, I don't know if that vibe is still there but there is still a buzz about the city. There are fun and interesting events to see and do, eateries to visit, walks and cycles along the river to do, parks to relax in, "hip" cafes and bars to socialise at.

I'm sorry that your neck of the woods doesn't feel the same. But go down to the river in South West London on a sunny weekend morning and see just how many families and friends are enjoying life. It's not all bad

Also, it sounds like you've worked hard and you are one of the "lucky" ones to have benefited from years of house price inflation. If I'd bought 12 years ago I could potentially be a few years away from retirement now moving to a cheaper area (my low target figure for retirement that is).

CLAPTON

ElsieMonkey wrote: »

I was born in and have always lived in London. Born in Hammersmith and have lived all over London - Acton, Ealing, Harrow, Southwark. But I am selling up and leaving London. It took me a long time to get my head around this since being a Londoner feels like a massive part of my identity. For ages I refused to be one of those statistics, one of those left little choice but to be priced out of their home town.

I don't believe anyone has the right to live anywhere in particular - if you can't afford it you have to move. So, it does annoy me when I hear of council Right to Buy schemes in areas of London where me and my partner, both as full time average/above average workers have no chance in hell of ever being able to afford to live in even if we wanted to. Why should those in council properties have the "right to buy"? I thought the point on council properties was to help those in need have a roof over their heads? If they can afford to buy then they shouldn't be in a council house! Being given the chance to buy in prime location at a reduced price and pocket the difference when selling on in future is just down right unfair when others work, scrimp and save to have a property anywhere in London - their home town.

So anyway, we're fed up, priced out (unless we want to be mortgaged up to our eyeballs and have 0 quality of life/no space) and are cashing in and moving away. We feel very lucky to have been born here, have got on the property ladder when we did, and benefit from the rising prices in order to fund our move away. However, we have not been born in to money, have been forever scrimping and saving and have made calculated strategic decisions about what we bought when and where property wise which has got us to this point.

I'm 34 and London is a vastly different place than it was just 10 years ago. I know cities are always evolving but London isn't evolving for the better as far as I'm concerned. The suburbs, like where I live now in the Harrow borough, is full of people who just use it as a base to commute to the city, like most of London suburbia. You get as close to the city as your money will allow. Living in no man's land. Always on the outside looking in. The area and circumstance picked you, you didn't pick it, and as a result no one gives a s**t about who and what is on their doorstep. There's no sense of community.

Unless you rely on the council to fund your existence, are rich, or are happy to live a million to one bedroom, there really is no longevity yo your existence in London. We want to start a family, and have to move away from our home town to do so, in order to afford it.

It may be right for you to move out in your particular circumstances but London is a wonderful place.
Many areas are, in my opinion being massively improved: I was recent walking round areas that used to be dreadful but have been or are being transformed : Kings X , and the area along Caledonian Road, Lower Holloway, even Wood Green (ok maybe exaggerating).
Best of luck with your move but remember the best experiences of London.

ElsieMonkey

mwpt wrote: »

I agree with a lot of what you say actually.

Particularly about the right to buy. It is about as unfair a policy I can think of. Homes that were meant to house people in bad situations but turned into a lotto ticket for the select few at the expense of the tax payer while we still can't house the lower paid properly.

I am sorry that the London you loved has changed. I first came to this city back in 1997 for a few years, then left again. But back again a bit later. I agree, it has changed a lot but also, I was younger then, the things I did were different, the places I went and people I socialised with were different. I stayed in Earls Court hostels in those days as a young back packer for example and the "vibe" in the city was just amazing. But of course I'm not exposed to that any more, I don't know if that vibe is still there but there is still a buzz about the city. There are fun and interesting events to see and do, eateries to visit, walks and cycles along the river to do, parks to relax in, "hip" cafes and bars to socialise at.

I'm sorry that your neck of the woods doesn't feel the same. But go down to the river in South West London on a sunny weekend morning and see just how many families and friends are enjoying life. It's not all bad

Also, it sounds like you've worked hard and you are one of the "lucky" ones to have benefited from years of house price inflation. If I'd bought 12 years ago I could potentially be a few years away from retirement now moving to a cheaper area (my low target figure for retirement that is).

Thank you, I agree. Right to Buy concerns me for the reasons you say, it does seem very unfair, but also where do those seriously in need then get housed if the council houses are gone? It just doesn't make any sense to me on all levels.

Yes there are a lot of families enjoying summer days along the Thames, I used to live 5 mins walk from Tower Bridge and saw it myself. But I would argue these are families with more money than the average, or those making big sacrifices in order to fund their lifestyle (working all hours god sends, mortgaged to the hilt, paying full-time child care costs, only seeing their child for 1 hour before bed time on a weekday then being exhausted from the weeks work/juggling to have the energy for quality/enjoyable time at the weekend). These are families that who eventually too will think, is this worth it? And move away.

I'd like to think one day London will have affordable homes for the average hard working person (currently affordable housing requires earning a higher than average salary more often than not - how on earth is this then affordable)?! That council homes are truly for those in need (sorry, I don't care if you're family have lived in the area for generations. If you can't afford it or don't want to work for it, you have to move - like I have to), and we have space to take in those from war torn countries truly in need rather than filling our homes with EU economic migrants or to the other extreme selling properties to rich foreign investors which sit empty as investments. It really is a city of extremes and anyone in the middle is stuck or forgotten about.