Do people think native English people will be forced to move to out of London?

CLAPTON

cells wrote: »

London has to be relatively expensive as that is what encourage some existing Londoners to move out and stops others from rUK moving in.

A cheap London would see far fewer moving out and far more moving in so instead of growing at 100,000 a year it would need to grow at multiples of that

The biggest problem with discussions about London and especially inner London is that people do not realise how artificially cheap and depressed inner London was in the mid 1990s and base their wishes on those days as some norm rather than accepting those where the abnormal lows

what many people don't understand about London, is that supply and demand determine the price of property.

It doesn't 'have' to be either expensive or cheap : the price is a result of normal economic processes.

It doesn't 'have' to grow at all : most of the growth is due to the abject failure of the EU and how the EU can't provide basic jobs for its citizens : definitely an organisation to give greater power over the UK economy : they would soon sort our the immigration issue and lead to a healthy fall in population.

mwpt

CLAPTON wrote: »

It doesn't 'have' to grow at all : most of the growth is due to the abject failure of the EU and how the EU can't provide basic jobs for its citizens : definitely an organisation to give greater power over the UK economy : they would soon sort our the immigration issue and lead to a healthy fall in population.

When you view the EU as a super-state, there isn't really anything abnormal about what is happening. People in the UK migrate to London for jobs, people in the EU migrate to capital cities for jobs, one of which is London. English being a global language helps, as does the strong economy here.

This is just the way a super-state would work, small, large, whatever. It will ebb and flow with the cycles though.

CLAPTON

mwpt wrote: »

When you view the EU as a super-state, there isn't really anything abnormal about what is happening. People in the UK migrate to London for jobs, people in the EU migrate to capital cities for jobs, one of which is London. English being a global language helps, as does the strong economy here.

This is just the way a super-state would work, small, large, whatever. It will ebb and flow with the cycles though.

I agree; it is the abject failure of the EU 'superstate' to manage its economic affairs for the benefit of its 'citizens', that is forcing young people out of their own countries through lack of jobs.

This of course does tremendous damage to the countries of origin and puts great burdens on the receiving countries.

Fortunately the UK has avoided some of the more destructive of the EU economic policies so still has a decent economy.
However we are not able to avoid the consequences of the EU economic incompetence altogether.

All internationalist like myself, welcome the ebb and flow of different peoples and nationalities but the shear number is doing great damage to the (especially young) people of the UK.

Filo25

One of the big drivers of London price growth post Global Financial Crisis I suspect has also been the global elite hoovering up super prime properties, pumping a lot of new equity into the London market, and also pushing the price of those properties out of the range of nearly all local buyers.

The sellers of those properties have a lot of money in their pocket and ultimately bid up property prices in the prime areas, combined with those who might previously have been in the market for super prime and can now no longer afford to buy there, and so the trickle down effect kicks in.

Purely speculation on my part as I genuinely have no idea how big the equity flows from overseas were relative to the overall level of transactions in the housing market, but its certainly a lot easier for those kind of movements to impact overall prices in recent times where transaction volumes are relatively depressed, it also tracks the trend in prices we have seen where it was super prime which recovered and then grew rapidly first, followed by prime and now outer London.

CLAPTON

Filo25 wrote: »

One of the big drivers of London price growth post Global Financial Crisis I suspect has also been the global elite hoovering up super prime properties, pumping a lot of new equity into the London market, and also pushing the price of those properties out of the range of nearly all local buyers.

The sellers of those properties have a lot of money in their pocket and ultimately bid up property prices in the prime areas, combined with those who might previously have been in the market for super prime and can now no longer afford to buy there, and so the trickle down effect kicks in.

Purely speculation on my part as I genuinely have no idea how big the equity flows from overseas were relative to the overall level of transactions in the housing market, but its certainly a lot easier for those kind of movements to impact overall prices in recent times where transaction volumes are relatively depressed, it also tracks the trend in prices we have seen where it was super prime which recovered and then grew rapidly first, followed by prime and now outer London.

absolutely nothing to do with the fact that over 40% of London residents are foreign? and the London population growth of over 100,000 per annum?

just some fat cats buying some high priced properties.

so we just need to stop the rich foreigners then suddenly there will be a surplus of family sized houses available.

mwpt

CLAPTON wrote: »

I agree; it is the abject failure of the EU 'superstate' to manage its economic affairs for the benefit of its 'citizens', that is forcing young people out of their own countries through lack of jobs.

The same thing happens internally to the UK. Various locations that were once prosperous have declined and people have moved to prosperous areas, making life "worse" (*) for those in prosperous areas.

In a super-state the same thing happens. It doesn't make it worse.

(*) According to your definition of worse

mwpt

cells wrote: »

The biggest problem with discussions about London and especially inner London is that people do not realise how artificially cheap and depressed inner London was in the mid 1990s and base their wishes on those days as some norm rather than accepting those where the abnormal lows

We have common ground in this view. I realise I bang on about low rates stimulating house prices, and I stand by that. I still think ultra low rates on mortgages were a bad idea but let us leave that for the other threads. I agree with you that London at one stage was very cheap compared to now and very cheap for what you were getting based on how it has turned out.

Everyone likes to think that the future was obvious, even back in the past. But it wasn't always obvious that cities would continue to grow so dense. Even now I am unconvinced this will be the way of the future over a longer term.

Let's speculate wildly for a moment. Let's say a very very efficient battery technology was invented. Orders of magnitude better than today. Let's assume you don't know if this is possible or not and that you are not going to debate whether this will happen, let's assume it does happen. Let's assume alongside that, solar or some other energy source becomes even more efficient / cheap. Let's also assume driverless technology is perfected and almost no-one actually drives themselves, and we have a swarm of electric micro cars efficiently routing people around the country and into the city at high speeds because there is no such thing as traffic congestion.

In this scenario, people can live far less dense. I believe I'd move further out of London to a larger house in a location with more green spaces, cleaner air. It may be that most people would still prefer to live more densely, I don't know, but it surely would put downward pressure on London prices as people have other options as commuting becomes very feasible.

CLAPTON

mwpt wrote: »

The same thing happens internally to the UK. Various locations that were once prosperous have declined and people have moved to prosperous areas, making life "worse" (*) for those in prosperous areas.

In a super-state the same thing happens. It doesn't make it worse.

(*) According to your definition of worse

so you genuinely see no difference between the movement of say 50,000 and 9,000,000 people?

an incompetent superstate can make things super bad.

modest movement of people is usually better for all concerned but massive movement, especially due to dogmatic adherence to obsolete economic theories and political objectives, does huge harm.

*.my definition of 'worse' is where families can no longer live in a family size, journey times to work increase dramatically, waiting times to access health services increase , schools are more crowded, roads log jammed etc
presumably this is your definition of 'better' ?

Rich2808

CLAPTON wrote: »

absolutely nothing to do with the fact that over 40% of London residents are foreign? and the London population growth of over 100,000 per annum?

just some fat cats buying some high priced properties.

so we just need to stop the rich foreigners then suddenly there will be a surplus of family sized houses available.

Yes - it's all myth really.

One third of the empty homes in central London are in council tax band A - effectively council studio and one beds not rich oligarch pads that no ordinary person could afford.

And Yes due to the lack of a revaluation since 1991 thousands of central London homes are in the same council tax band as a one bed flat in Barnsley.

Filo25

CLAPTON wrote: »

absolutely nothing to do with the fact that over 40% of London residents are foreign? and the London population growth of over 100,000 per annum?

just some fat cats buying some high priced properties.

so we just need to stop the rich foreigners then suddenly there will be a surplus of family sized houses available.

No as usual you misunderstand entirely what I'm saying, I don't know if that is deliberately or otherwise, but honestly I've got bored feeding this particular troll.