Tenants left - house disgusting - deposit dispute

grendel666h

Removed due to too much crap.

pinkshoes

I am assuming the deposit was correctly protected?

How old was the oven? what did the report say regarding why it was condemned? You cannot claim for betterment, so unless it was brand new two years ago, and can prove that them not cleaning it was the cause of it being condemned, then you can only claim for cleaning.

Did they sign the inventory to agree the condition?

Did you have a break clause in the contract allowing you to give early notice?

AdrianC

grendel666h wrote: »

We have put a claim in against the deposit for all of the above. However, the only thing the tenants accepts is the removal of the furniture. His arguments are :

1) The guttering leaked so water ran down the outside wall causing the damp in the rooms. The guttering problem was never raised with the EA or us and we were never informed of any damp/mould forming.

Is the guttering leaking?

2) The oven has been condemned by BG so cleaning it is not an option as it's not usable by anyone.

Unless you can prove that the condemnation IS solely due to the lack of cleaning, then that may well have some merit.

The EA has the original inventory and the check out report with photographs, plus our photographs.

Then you have all the evidence required to let the deposit protection scheme's adjudicators make their decision.

pmlindyloo

grendel666h wrote: »

Thanks for replying.

It was only a couple of years old. They didn't say why it was condemned. I'm not after betterment, if it can be cleaned, that would be fine.

Yes, the original inventory was signed.

Yes, the contract had a clause to say we can give notice whenever we want. It was all drawn up through the EA legal team.

Bolded part. This is very unusual and we would need more information to say whether this was legally enforceable.

So, when did the tenancy start? When was it renewed (if it was) and for how long? Hwat exactly did the tenancy agreement say about giving 2 month's notice whenever you want)

On to the deductions from the deposit.

First the oven - I am not sure how it could be 'condemned' if it was only a matter of cleaning it.

As regards the rest. Did your letting agent do regular inspections? Are you sure the tenants did not report the 'leak' to the letting agents?

According to this link:

https://www.depositprotection.com/documents/a-guide-to-tenancy-deposits-disputes-and-damages.pdf

The landlord has to prove loss and would generally require invoices to show that you had paid for a deep clean, carpets etc.

Also, you need to take fair, wear and tear into consideration and cannot claim for 'betterment' so you would have to take into account when the carpets were first laid and when it was last decorated.

I think the difficulty you have is that you intend to redecorate and carpet and redo the bathroom anyway (particularly the bathroom part)

I don't know what figures you have used in your letter to the tenants about the sums you wish to deduct but do make sure they take into account the above points and have a careful read of the link.

Yes, you can use the deposit arbitration scheme but it would be so much better if you could come to some agreement with the tenants taking into account the above.

AdrianC

grendel666h wrote: »

Not that we have seen. It was raining when we were there but we didn't notice any leaks.

Then their claim is rubbish, and will almost certainly be thrown out.

Good point. It was so gunged up with grease and fat we didn't want to go too near it as it was stinking.

You really need BG to explain the condemnation.

TBagpuss

Are you sure the oven was in fact condemned? Have you seen a notice or had the oven inspected yourself?

princeofpounds

The arbitrators are generally sensible, but they will only act on the evidence put in front of them. That's why details such as the reason for the condemnation are super-important.


The arbitrators and deposit schemes put out plenty of literature detailing how the dispute process works, and many case studies of decisions. Reading these is the best way to get a handle on things.


You will want to present your own evidence, and also if you think you know what the tenant will argue, refute theirs.

AdrianC

TBagpuss wrote: »

Are you sure the oven was in fact condemned? Have you seen a notice or had the oven inspected yourself?

Thinking about it, if this really IS a 2yo oven, is it even gas? Aren't virtually all ovens - even in cookers with gas hobs - electric now?

MrJB

You've not stated WHEN the lease commenced. Irrespective of what the lease states, you obviously cannot enforce a covenant that enables you to gain possession before the first 6 months of a tenancy in any event. The wording of the break clause would need to be pretty concise, perhaps you can reproduce it here for us to judge!

How extensive was the original inventory? Does it contain both images and descriptions of every item which you're claiming? Has it been signed by the tenant on every page?

harrys_dad

I assume you were paying the agent to manage the property for you (a % of the rent). If so, did they ever do an inspection? Surely much of the above would have been visible to them at the time, rather than wait until tenants have moved out to inform you.

atrixblue.-MFR-.

With the mould it would fall to you to investigate it even if the tenant reported it, you or the agency would have to evidence the fact the mould is caused by the lifestyle of the family living there and not from a building defect as mentioned, once identifying the cause of mould, its then upto you or the agency involved to then assist in implementing any remedy to rid it. Infact its almost impossible to rid mould as it just sits dormant in most cases until the conditions trigger the spores again, there is guidance on this and the best case scenario would be to get in a professional to clean the mould away.


Have the guttering inspected for any splits, cracks and see if its gradually falling to the down pipe and not level or slanting back to another property where water can collected and eventually pour back onto brickwork to cause water penetration.
don't forget to take photo's.


The cooker, BG has said its condemned but to what is the cause?. My cooker is not looking the best I do clean it though, sometimes it just needs a few hob parts in order to get back to working order again and good ammonia cleaner to bring it back to working order.

To me it is clear that the "agent" failed in keeping up inspections due to the mould build up it takes time for this to happen not a month or two but longer so, they also failed to inspect the fixtures, and I hope they adhered to 12monthly gas safe boiler inspections also if this was contracted you should have a copy of it.

I've seen tenancy agreements contracted by estate agents in the past and some are not worthy of being toilet paper from a landlords point of view, many clauses sometimes infringe upon tenancy law that lets a tenant off scott free when its court or dealing with deposits, and these tenancies are from the so called EA's Legal team for an "extra £50" When dealing with tenancies its just better to safeguard yourself and research it on the shelter website or seek legal clarification yourself.