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EU Specific Negatives

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Comments

  • bugslet
    bugslet Posts: 6,874 Forumite
    Question for you mwpt:)

    I read that your work can be and is off-shored. How would it impact your decision on the upcoming referendum, if other EU countries could operate in the UK with their cost base instead of ours.

    I'm not sure I can think of another sector where the industry itself can almost a 100% operate in another country in direct competition. Workers can come here as individuals, but no business that I can think of.

    Someone will no doubt come along and disavow me of that opinion!
  • Generali
    Generali Posts: 36,411 Forumite
    10,000 Posts Combo Breaker
    bugslet wrote: »
    Question for you mwpt:)

    I read that your work can be and is off-shored. How would it impact your decision on the upcoming referendum, if other EU countries could operate in the UK with their cost base instead of ours.

    I'm not sure I can think of another sector where the industry itself can almost a 100% operate in another country in direct competition. Workers can come here as individuals, but no business that I can think of.

    Someone will no doubt come along and disavow me of that opinion!

    Back office banking has moved almost entirely offshore from having been the entry point in London of many into an industry with very high paying jobs.

    What other than haulage should be protected? Haulage is a part of the cost of clothing that you believe should remain high but what about the textile industry? That has almost gone from the UK but presumably you'd be prepared to pay a multiple more than you currently do in order to support the British textile industry which would be obliged to use British hauliers.

    Oh and cotton growers of course. I mean growing all that cotton under glass using sun lamps ain't gonna be cheap but hey, what's sauce for the goose...right?
  • bugslet
    bugslet Posts: 6,874 Forumite
    Gen, I've not asked for haulage to be protected. It is what it is.

    mwpt asked for specific personal experience negatives and I supplied them earlier on in the thread. Personally it does make me sad to see fellow hauliers go, ones that I've grown up my entire life with.

    Oddly I do make choices where it's half reasonable that keep manufacturing in Britian, and I make a choice that things like Uber are not for me.

    As I said before, East EU drivers don't and won't affect me and my work will never go to them anyway.

    It just occured to me on the morning dog walk, that I couldn't think of another sector where the lower cost base competition work in the UK, as opposed to off-shoring.

    Really don't understand the grouchy tone.:(
  • mwpt
    mwpt Posts: 2,502 Forumite
    Sixth Anniversary Combo Breaker
    bugslet wrote: »
    Question for you mwpt:)

    I read that your work can be and is off-shored. How would it impact your decision on the upcoming referendum, if other EU countries could operate in the UK with their cost base instead of ours.

    I'm not sure I can think of another sector where the industry itself can almost a 100% operate in another country in direct competition. Workers can come here as individuals, but no business that I can think of.

    Someone will no doubt come along and disavow me of that opinion!

    I've tried not to divulge too much on this forum, but it is hard to give comprehensive answers without being specific. You've not been shy about your business, so perhaps I'm being too cagey.

    I will answer your question in a round-about way.

    I work(ed) in finance IT, in the front office, but in a fairly niche role. In the London office our team went from 15 or so developers to 3. The rest, through attrition and non replacement, were slowly moved to a location in the EU. I was "lucky" in that our traders/quants/business always wanted some staff remaining in the London office and though I would have gladly taken redundancy if offered, my work ethic never let me slack off and I never saw that option on the horizon. So I resigned in order to try something related to what I was doing with a slightly different angle focused on startups. Frankly, I love it but it isn't easy because I'm not a salesman. I am now in talks with a different bank for a really good role and I am most likely going to take the money while it is on the table (sadly).

    In my world, being out of the EU would make no difference at all to this process. The EU exists, cheaper locations exist, and in the modern world where businesses dictate cross border functions the UK is just struggling to compete because we think we "deserve" higher wages than a guy living over yonder. Sorry but the real world disagrees, I'm not more deserving than an equivalent worker outside the UK, or even up north in the UK (JP Morgan is opening a huge IT office in Glasgow). If I want the higher London salaries I must work harder, be smarter and be the person people like to have around. Otherwise, your role is eventually going to go. Back office is even worse because by its nature it isn't as necessary to have a presence in London/NY/HK etc.

    For me, an EU vote out may very well be detrimental. It would cause some of the finance or tech or startup firms to leave to Europe locations. Cities like Berlin have a real Brooklyn style culture and would be more than welcoming for the London startup vibe to migrate over there. I would find it very sad because I have made my home in London for nearly 14 years but obviously I have to earn a living and should the opportunity arise, I'd move to where the work went (that won’t go down well with the patriots, my country right or wrong types).

    So you may not recognise it as such but we actually have the same problem. Offshoring of a role in my world is the same thing as having a cheaper developer come over here. Except they get to live in a cheaper cost location and enjoy the benefits of that, same as the foreign drivers who compete with British drivers.

    To answer your specific question, if an exit vote could guarantee that no foreign firms and drivers could come to the UK and compete for haulage jobs (I am guessing how it works), then from a self interest point of view, I could understand why you would vote out (leaving aside the wider issues). If you really see this as a make or break thing where you business cannot continue to compete for much longer while in the EU and you can't think how to adjust, then it makes sense for you to vote out.

    There are a lot of "ifs" in there and I would strongly suggest that an out vote will not stop the government from allowing foreign firms and drivers to compete for business I'm afraid. Just the same in my world.
  • bugslet
    bugslet Posts: 6,874 Forumite
    Thanks mwpt.

    I didn't mean to be overly nosy and I don't discuss my own business that much, which is very odd by haulage standards, just generalities about the sector.

    If we left the EU, and I very much doubt we will, I have no idea how it will pan out for us. In terms of drivers, I don't think we'd be throwing a load out, nor would I want to. It would allow the UK to either restrict the amount of fuel brought in or impose a levy, so that would go towards evening up the cost base in the UK and as important to me, shunt some money into the Treasury. there may be other ways that they can charge for the wear and tear on the road and other environmental costs - at the moment the restriction is to £11.00 a day, which hardly covers anything.

    If money is what drives you, then take the job, there's no judgement from me on the reasons why:). I suspect also, that you are the person that people will like to have around, it's a philosophy that I try for ( not a natural born saleswoman either). I'm not very money driven as long as I have enough - drives my finance guy nuts:D.
  • Generali
    Generali Posts: 36,411 Forumite
    10,000 Posts Combo Breaker
    bugslet wrote: »
    Gen, I've not asked for haulage to be protected. It is what it is.

    mwpt asked for specific personal experience negatives and I supplied them earlier on in the thread. Personally it does make me sad to see fellow hauliers go, ones that I've grown up my entire life with.

    Oddly I do make choices where it's half reasonable that keep manufacturing in Britian, and I make a choice that things like Uber are not for me.

    As I said before, East EU drivers don't and won't affect me and my work will never go to them anyway.

    It just occured to me on the morning dog walk, that I couldn't think of another sector where the lower cost base competition work in the UK, as opposed to off-shoring.

    Really don't understand the grouchy tone.:(

    I apologise if the tone comes across as grouchy as that was absolutely not meant. I'm very sorry if it was interpreted as me being a meanie. I generally try to keep a civil tone and seem to have overstepped a mark here.

    Sorry.
  • kabayiri
    kabayiri Posts: 22,740 Forumite
    Part of the Furniture 10,000 Posts
    I would welcome anyone here to come and work and pay taxes and buy/rent a house and go shopping and breed.

    I would offer no freebies to anyone who does not put in to the system.

    I believe migration issues and overcrowding / stretched services result from people being given free stuff by the state, such that market forces do not prevail. Uk citizens in social housing in central London are as much an issue as the oft cited immigrants causing all the problems

    The people in the Polish office I speak to echo pretty much what you say about UK.

    They believe the UK benefit system is pretty much broken. I'm not sure why, but you tend to listen when it comes from an external source. It's a contentious issue because there is still a drain of good people from Poland to UK and Germany, so it pays to keep it light.

    I had kind of assumed each EU country could have it's own variations, but I'm beginning to think they are right. The benefit systems and things like NHS and education will have to harmonise for the EU to succeed.

    I don't know which of our political parties support an insurance backed NHS; and much reduced benefit systems though.
  • kabayiri
    kabayiri Posts: 22,740 Forumite
    Part of the Furniture 10,000 Posts
    If we are talking just direct experiences I too have very few.

    The previous school for the kids were forever complaining about stretched budgets, but at the same time were spending £44 per hour on a Polish interpreter for one child with special needs.

    That just struck me as a waste of money, when you can provide translation support much more efficiently.

    However, is that an EU issue? The school certainly felt they had to make provision, but is it just our government which feels the need to provide a lot of language support?

    I dislike big government in general, and I think you should pay for your own language tuition needs when you go elsewhere.
  • cells
    cells Posts: 5,246 Forumite
    one specific positive of the EU for the whole world (except maybe russia/saudi/etc) is its push for efficiency.

    Thanks to the EU mandates on efficiency for a lot of things from light bulbs to hoovers to fridges to washers to cars the worlds gadgets are getting more and more efficient.

    This has helped the world a good deal in both lower costs to run appliances and also lower energy prices thanks to lower demand than otherwise would have been.

    The same can be said about solar and Wind power which was kick started in the EU. If they become cost competitive the world will have the EU to thank for bringing them about a generation sooner than they otherwise would have done.
  • Conrad
    Conrad Posts: 33,137 Forumite
    10,000 Posts Combo Breaker
    An idea for a thread perhaps;


    If we were an independent nation like Australia or Canada, with our own global trade deals, our own seat on all the world bodies, who would vote now to join the EU and do away with 'merely' a trade deal~?
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