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EU Specific Negatives

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Comments

  • bugslet
    bugslet Posts: 6,874 Forumite
    edited 19 April 2016 am30 8:55AM
    Well I have said before to the point of boring myself, but since you ask.

    UK international haulage market share has gone down from around 80% in the late 80s to ( latest figures I have ) 16.6% in Q3 2015. Polish share of international haulage market has gone from bu88er all ( that's a sort of guess from me, but I'm comfortable I'm right;)) in the mid 90s to 26% now.

    The EU is obviously far from a level playing field in terms of wages paid. The rates that the East EU firms can work for, a West EU haulier cannot match. ( I can witter at length if you would like about Germany's attempts to impose their NMW on external countries and France's innovative re-interpretation of haulage law if you really want - they are not happy either).

    On a truck forum I frequent, they are firmly of the opinion that wages are suppressed by the arrival of EU migrants, particularly the East EU. I don't have official figures, but you find people that have lost a job that paid OK money, say £10.00 an hour and now pays £7.50 to a Romanian. The poll to leave the EU on that forum is running around 85-86% leave as an aside. Wages for drivers, looking away from personal experience, is driven by a number of factors - again happy to witter on, but it's dull.

    In the interests of transparency, I can't employ non UK national and my particular niche won't be taken by a Polish company, so personally I'm not impacted. However, my entire life has been in the haulage industry, from the age of 3 when I went on my first trip with my Dad and it genuinely saddens me to see the way things have gone. Outsiders can understand about farmers and their connection to the land, for many hauliers it's the same feeling of connection and pride. Hearing about the demise of a good family firm is very sad.

    The relaxation in the cabotage rules ( cabotage relates to the ability of a non native firm to collect/deliver within another country's borders) is now affecting the domestic UK hauliers in certain areas. You have a Pole tipping in Glasgow, with a return load booked out of London for Warsaw and that means he will shift from Glasgow to London a full trailer, for less than I would run a van at.

    We have an East EU industry functioning in a higher cost Western EU country.

    Where it does affect me personally, is that I no longer backload out of Europe into the UK. It was never a great experience anyway and pay was poor ( particularly for our set up of specialised trailers and double-manned trucks), but now I lose more money trying to compete with the East EU firms, so the trucks come back empty.
  • mwpt
    mwpt Posts: 2,502 Forumite
    Sixth Anniversary Combo Breaker
    Thanks bugslet, quite specific points, pretty much what I was interested in hearing. One follow up question if you don't mind. In my specific industry, being in or out of the EU will have no impact on the continued offshoring of jobs and global competition. Do you think a brexit vote would work in favour of the domestic drivers in the UK or would we still face wage suppression from EU competition?
  • Andy_L
    Andy_L Posts: 12,960 Forumite
    Part of the Furniture 10,000 Posts Name Dropper
    You are supposed to put produced in the EU rather than in the UK, that sort of thing. At the moment we get away with putting made in the UK on at least one of our products, if they see that it will almost certainly have to be changed.

    Do you have a link for that? From a proper trade body, or indeed the EU itself, rather than the tabloids.
  • bugslet
    bugslet Posts: 6,874 Forumite
    *shrugs* not a clue mwpt.

    No-one can tell me what will happen. I suspect that it won't make much difference. The one thing I do know is that being in the EU is detrimental to my industry. Whilst the French and Germans are a complete PITA with their manoueverings, at least they are doing something. It was only last year that the British government got around to charging £11.00 a day to foreign haulier for the use of UK roads. So as an average, every foreign truck costs the UK in lost taxable revenue £455.00 a week. A few years back it was annualised at £300 million, I suspect it's a fair bit more now.

    I was stay in a few months ago, now I'm on the leave side.....I could teeter either way.
  • Mistermeaner
    Mistermeaner Posts: 2,989 Forumite
    Tenth Anniversary 1,000 Posts
    Alot the reasons people give for not liking migrants (taking our benefits using our schools / nhs etc) are IMO an issue with our overly generous benefits rather than migrants per se. I see no reason to discriminate against someone born somewhere else - why does being born within our borders give anyone special entitlement to anything?
    Left is never right but I always am.
  • I live in London, where the extra numbers invariably end up, so daily basics such as commuting, housing, GP/dentist registration are affected, although this would be hard to quantify exactly. Different parts of the city are affected by the distinct populations that end up in certain areas; eg residents of Hammersmith will have seen many changes (both positive and negative) due to the massive recent increase in the local Polish population.

    I work in higher education, which has done quite well out of EU grants (although the old school timesheets required for these particular projects are a real PITA). My area of engineering attracts huge numbers of Chinese and Indian applicants, and it would be a lot easier for us to recruit the best via a points system; at present we never quite know whether we're going to get Home Office approval for a work permit for a non-EU national (the implication is they'd rather we recruited from the EU as that's less of an admin hassle). We've had to fight a lot of bureaucracy to get outstanding students out of Iran and Cuba; we should be recruiting the very best rather than the cheapest and easiest.

    Our biggest and fastest growing source of research income is from China (esp aerospace and automotive) rather than national Research Councils and EU grants.

    Using the Tube daily, I'm a personal target for terrorists. There are many factors involved in this issue obviously, but I do believe there is a pan-European problem with Muslim integration into Western democratic society. Merkel's open invitation to the entire Middle East, the attempted cover-up by local authorities following the slightly awkward NYE incident in Cologne and the refugee "deal" with Turkey lead me to conclude that the powers that be within the EU genuinely have zero comprehension of the average citizen's concern about islamification. I also live near a huge mosque, but one for the "wrong type of Muslims", ie those considered heretics by Saudi and who the Muslim Council of Britain refuse to acknowledge. So that's another fat juicy terrorism target.
    They are an EYESORES!!!!
  • CLAPTON
    CLAPTON Posts: 41,865 Forumite
    10,000 Posts Combo Breaker
    Alot the reasons people give for not liking migrants (taking our benefits using our schools / nhs etc) are IMO an issue with our overly generous benefits rather than migrants per se. I see no reason to discriminate against someone born somewhere else - why does being born within our borders give anyone special entitlement to anything?

    but you don't actually believe in totally free movement of people, from anywhere to anywhere in unlimited numbers, do you
  • Mistermeaner
    Mistermeaner Posts: 2,989 Forumite
    Tenth Anniversary 1,000 Posts
    CLAPTON wrote: »
    but you don't actually believe in totally free movement of people, from anywhere to anywhere in unlimited numbers, do you

    What I said was: Alot the reasons people give for not liking migrants (taking our benefits using our schools / nhs etc) are IMO an issue with our overly generous benefits rather than migrants per se. I see no reason to discriminate against someone born somewhere else - why does being born within our borders give anyone special entitlement to anything?

    you don't actually believe in completely restricted movement of people, from anywhere to anywhere, do you?
    Left is never right but I always am.
  • CLAPTON
    CLAPTON Posts: 41,865 Forumite
    10,000 Posts Combo Breaker
    What I said was: Alot the reasons people give for not liking migrants (taking our benefits using our schools / nhs etc) are IMO an issue with our overly generous benefits rather than migrants per se. I see no reason to discriminate against someone born somewhere else - why does being born within our borders give anyone special entitlement to anything?

    you don't actually believe in completely restricted movement of people, from anywhere to anywhere, do you?

    It is clear that I believe in heavily restricted immigration to the Uk.

    I do indeed believe that people born here should have special privileges here, just as I believe that people born elsewhere have special privileges 'there'.
    The reason I believe that is entirely pragmatic based on what I believe is practical and to be in my own best interests.

    What you believe is less clear.
  • Mistermeaner
    Mistermeaner Posts: 2,989 Forumite
    Tenth Anniversary 1,000 Posts
    I believe in massively cutting back on the state provision of all sorts of 'free' stuff with tests on what you have paid in to determine what you get out. No automatic rights to housing and benefits for anyone regardless of where they were born.
    Left is never right but I always am.
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