£100 lost by not attending ESA appointment

fira

>Have you any idea how violent members of the public can be? Security guards are there for a reason - to protect staff and innocent bystanders... they are NOT just there to intimidate claimants.<

When I worked for JCP I well remember the man who came in asking for a crisis loan to bury his recently deceased dog. It was declined. Not too long afterwards, he arrived back, placed the dead dog, wrapped in a blanket, onto the advisor’s desk and told her it was now her problem.

I think the worst one though was the lad who also applied for a crisis loan to pay for bedding which had been soiled. He was known to the member of staff who dealt with him as were his unfortunate home circumstances. The loan was approved but reduced to what was thought to be a more realistic figure for what he needed. He was furious.

Around an hour later, he came back with a bucket full of excrement (who knows from where or from what!), spun it around his head then towards the customer-facing staff who all got covered in it. Police were called, the claimant was arrested at his home and the management had to use the local Oxfam shop to get staff something to change into to allow them to get home. It was only then that permanent security staff were brought in.

I worked with some great people and equally great customers. You just never knew when it all could go so very wrong.

missapril75

Tiddlywinks wrote: »

Are you joking?

We are talking about benefits - it should never be 'money for nothing' - part of claiming places the onus on the claimant to become familiar with the requirements.

I think you maybe missed the part where the OP was familiar with the requirements

You can't just expect to get unconditional payments.

I don't. I'm simply asking how widely known it is that you can lose £200 for missing an appointment.

If you return a library book a couple of days late and when you return it the fine is £200, you might accept responsibility. It's you're own fault.

But would you think £200 was proportionate?

Sounds to me a bit like being hung for stealing a sheep or being deported to Australia for some other petty crime.

Or is £200 a trivial sum to you?

missapril75

cheesetoast wrote: »

If you signed up with an employment agency, agreed to a shift at 10am the following morning, overslept and didn't turn up, would you expect them to pay you?

I'm never sure why people equate it to work, but I'll play.

The answer is clearly no pay. That would be the pay for which the person would otherwise have received for the day. That might be £200. More likely less.

But if we were to liken it to employment, and you had to work Mon to Fri, 9-5 and you didn't turn up Wednesday, would you lose a whole week's pay?

If you made a mistake, would you be sacked or would there be some training issue or a warning?

The loss to the OP is not in proportion. If they made a habit of that sort of thing then, maybe. But this is ridiculous.

This is like getting a red card for a slightly mistimed tackle rather than a yellow card.

Glen_Clark

Confuseddot wrote: »

My friend is looking for a part time job and I offered to help and there were hundred .

I wonder what proportion are real jobs?
I don't know because I have been told many jobs advertised in jobcentres don't exist. Because its free to advertise, apparently unscrupulous agencies advertise non-existant jobs just to get a wide selection of people on their books in case a real job comes in.
We will probably never know how true this is. But I still wonder if running a free jobcentre service is the best use of taxpayers money. With say, 5 million peoiple chasing 1 million jobs, there will be 4 million out of work however good the jobcentre is. They might help some to get a job, but there will still be 5-1 = 4 million out of work. Just a different 4 million. So the net benefit is nil.

FBaby

But if we were to liken it to employment, and you had to work Mon to Fri, 9-5 and you didn't turn up Wednesday, would you lose a whole week's pay?

I think we would find that it would go from nothing happening at all to losing your job on the go. I expect the consequences would be much worse for someone like a nurse or a fireman.

dippy3103

If I were to not to turn up to work I would be on a disciplinary. The first time would be a written warning & loss of a day's pay. The next time more serious..

nannytone_2

missapril75 wrote: »

I think you maybe missed the part where the OP was familiar with the requirements

I don't. I'm simply asking how widely known it is that you can lose £200 for missing an appointment.

If you return a library book a couple of days late and when you return it the fine is £200, you might accept responsibility. It's you're own fault.

But would you think £200 was proportionate?

Sounds to me a bit like being hung for stealing a sheep or being deported to Australia for some other petty crime.

Or is £200 a trivial sum to you?

it is clearly stated that the onus is on the claimant to know the rules and obligations that make up their claim.

if someone takes the trouble to find out which benefit, and how to claim it, then it is reasonable to assume that they also know their responsibilities regarding that claim

SingleSue

nannytone wrote: »

so people sign off because they are intimidated?
can you supply a link that supports your claim?
from the numbers that are long term unemployed , i don't see that it is a valid claim

Yes they do.

A friend of mine (sorry no link available, just personal experience), had been claiming ESA for a mental breakdown, he also has Aspergers. He didn't receive the required amount of points at his assessment and so had to sign on for JSA.

It was at this point that the attitude towards him completely changed, he was going to organisations to help him return to work (which he had been referred to by the job centre whilst on ESA and waiting an appeal) but all of a sudden, this became a reason for a possible sanction.

The pressure put on him was absolutely immense and because it was threatening his rather delicate mental health, he signed off. He found the whole process very intimidating, very scary and he felt completely unsupported and scared about having the rug pulled from under him and getting a sanction for some wrong doing that he had no idea about.

Now this is not someone who had spent years on the dole or even years on ESA. Up to that point he had spent about a year on ESA, the rest of the time he had been working full time (so well over 30 years).

He now receives no benefits apart from council tax (I think, he might even have hit that on the head such is his fear) and is reliant on his mum (after spending his savings to live) and a few odd jobs he can do when he is well plus selling bits and pieces in his home to survive as and when needed...the fear and initimidation was far too much for him to even contemplate trying to go through the system again. Thankfully, he owns his own home (mortgage paid off about a year before he became ill) so he doesn't need to worry about the roof over his head!

red_devil

fira wrote: »

>Have you any idea how violent members of the public can be? Security guards are there for a reason - to protect staff and innocent bystanders... they are NOT just there to intimidate claimants.<

When I worked for JCP I well remember the man who came in asking for a crisis loan to bury his recently deceased dog. It was declined. Not too long afterwards, he arrived back, placed the dead dog, wrapped in a blanket, onto the advisor’s desk and told her it was now her problem.

I think the worst one though was the lad who also applied for a crisis loan to pay for bedding which had been soiled. He was known to the member of staff who dealt with him as were his unfortunate home circumstances. The loan was approved but reduced to what was thought to be a more realistic figure for what he needed. He was furious.

Around an hour later, he came back with a bucket full of excrement (who knows from where or from what!), spun it around his head then towards the customer-facing staff who all got covered in it. Police were called, the claimant was arrested at his home and the management had to use the local Oxfam shop to get staff something to change into to allow them to get home. It was only then that permanent security staff were brought in.

I worked with some great people and equally great customers. You just never knew when it all could go so very wrong.

security staff are always standing around what a waste of money up and down the country. The claimants need protecting from the staff sometimes.

red_devil

tomtontom wrote: »

My experience of the Jobcentre is that it is some of the claimants that make it such a horrible place to visit, not the staff - those with a sense of entitlement, those that shout about their human rights when they probably couldn't even spell the words.

The staff bully claimants left right and centre, they are the mouthpiece for a vile tory government how some of them sleep at night I don't know.


The fact that JCP's require security guards speaks volumes - no one should resort to abuse or violence, no matter what their issue.

do they though, they always seem to be stood around.