Unusual stair layout - would this pass regs?

System

the first option wouldn't comply with regs, the second is a really convoluted, awkward stair - adding two additional rooms and then making the access all over the place might mean you've reduced the saleability of your house. It's normal that bigger houses have grander stairs, not difficult to navigate stairs.
I know you think you know better than the architects you've asked about it, but sometimes it's best to acknowledge the skills and experience of professionals who will have designed hundreds of stairs in their time...
If it really is the critical thing for the feasibility of the whole project then spend a little on professional skills to make sure it's possible to get a compliant scheme rather than trying not to pay anyone and hoping for the best with regulation compliance.

ijrwe

the_r_sole wrote: »

a really convoluted, awkward stair - ... the access all over the place
...difficult to navigate stairs.

I'm surprised, it's just a couple of normal winding turns, you often get two winders in the same direction, is it not done to have a right and then a left?

The "most obvious" idea that I first thought of, and which the architects discussed, is this:



I'm not sure I see that as particularly superior to the last option above - do you think it is? The stairs remain as they are but I lose part of an existing bedroom to make what I feel is a fairly ill-placed landing.

spend a little on professional skills to make sure it's possible to get a compliant scheme rather than trying not to pay anyone and hoping for the best with regulation compliance.

I will indeed have someone design and construct this, when I know what to ask of them. They can't do it without a brief, I imagine.

ijrwe

ijrwe wrote: »

Here's one that might be a bit better:



Existing // Proposed


There'd be a bulkhead in the (new) room below but that's no problem.

Or if we really don't like the second winder, we can sacrifice a bit more room space and do it like this:

System

ijrwe wrote: »

I'm surprised, it's just a couple of normal winding turns, you often get two winders in the same direction, is it not done to have a right and then a left?

The "most obvious" idea that I first thought of, and which the architects discussed, is this:



I'm not sure I see that as particularly superior to the last option above - do you think it is? The stairs remain as they are but I lose part of an existing bedroom to make what I feel is a fairly ill-placed landing.



I will indeed have someone design and construct this, when I know what to ask of them. They can't do it without a brief, I imagine.

double winder stairs are never great (having worked with housebuilders they always try to avoid them because buyers don't like them) but to have the winders going different directions so close to each other means you have to go from one side to the other to stay on the wider area of tread - not good if you are elderly or not able bodied. Trying to get furniture up and down there might be difficult - but it seems like there's no point in telling you...

I never expect my clients to have to brief a stair manufacturer or have to worry about a stair complying with regs - that's why they pay me to design these things!!
pay someone to design it, that should ensure you get the best solution which meets the relevant statutory regulations.

ijrwe

the_r_sole wrote: »

you have to go from one side to the other to stay on the wider area of tread - not good if you are elderly or not able bodied. Trying to get furniture up and down there might be difficult - but it seems like there's no point in telling you...

That's exactly what I want to hear, in fact - things I may not have thought of.

pay someone to design it

Yep, like I said - that's the plan. I don't know enough about joinery to come up with the fine details myself. Once I know my options I'll be sure to have it all designed properly.

leveller2911

ijrwe wrote: »

I've had two architects around so far and they both thought the only way was to eat up some of the existing bedrooms to make a large landing area. That may well be the only way.

Over the years I've had plenty of jobs where architects have done drawings/designs for staircases/windows/porches etc after the details have been worked out by the Joiner.


Just looking at the designs you posted and you cannot have a 1st floor bedroom/bathroom door opening within 400mm of the top stair tread. Having 2 sets of winders at the top with one L/H and one R/H I don't believe will meet regs either. The stair layout in your post #14 may well comply with a single set of winders at the top with a landing before you reach the 1st door.

In some cases they have even drawn them out after they have been made and only after the Joiner has done all of the calculations. The best people to work out a staircase in many cases are the Joiners. They are the ones who set out and make them on a regular basis.

It's just not in my character to stand back and let someone decide everything without my input, I can't do it! They'll not have the same concerns and considerations that I do.

That's a fair comment and you should work along side the people who you employ but my advice is not to rely on an architect to know everything there is to know about building a house/extension because in many cases they don't know. We have calls from some of the architects we have worked with asking for advice.

JuzaMum

I found this website which has really useful information with diagram of stair layouts

https://www.tkstairs.com/information-help/building-regulations/domestic-building-regulations-explained

jackyann

I would talk to your local building inspector. One of the "issues" about odd stair set-ups is accessibility.
I don't know if your unusual stair set-up meets safety criteria - but the inspector will.

You also have to consider cost of an unusual project and, if relevant, how that may affect house price. Some people simply want to go ahead with the house they want, others need or want to consider added value.

UKSBD

Measure the existing rise and going.
Standard would probably be 200 rise - 235 going, where as you could go up to 220 rise.


If you could move bottom step slightly you may find you can get your landing on 12 and illuminate the need for winders completely.


Doing away with winders is by far the cheapest (and usually best) option.


Edit: even if you get your landing on 11 it's only one step in to the rooms on the left and right (rooms on right would lose that in the thickness of existing wall)

ijrwe

UKSBD wrote: »

Measure the existing rise and going.
Standard would probably be 200 rise - 235 going, where as you could go up to 220 rise.


If you could move bottom step slightly you may find you can get your landing on 12 and illuminate the need for winders completely.


Doing away with winders is by far the cheapest (and usually best) option.


Edit: even if you get your landing on 11 it's only one step in to the rooms on the left and right (rooms on right would lose that in the thickness of existing wall)

The rise and going are both 205mm, which I think means I'm steeper than 42 degrees already?

As I increased the rise I'd had to increase the going as well, anyway, right? So it wouldn't get me up there any sooner and I guess I'd still be stuck before reaching the landing. Plus the headroom issue (10cm to spare) at the bottom