Money Stolen From Account ?

BigGreenKwak

Hi All
My daughter is going through a marriage breakdown, As a result they have split up and moved apart, she left with only the children and personal belongings. They had a joint account with the Nationwide but no access to it. She could not close this account as it was a joint account and had an outstanding overdraft.
My first bit of advice to her was to open her own account which she did in person in store, again with the Nationwide (FlexAccount), more than once in this process she asked if her (X) husband would be able to she her new account and she was repeatedly told NO.
After a few weeks she had setup her online banking and saved up some money in her new account. To ensure she kept her savings we opened a new e-savings account via online banking with the Nationwide and transferred her small but important savings across.
It now seems that her (X) husband could see this new e-savings account when he logged in online (presumably he still has the joint account active) and transferred all of her savings out and then closed the e-savings account. To say my daughter is gutted is an understatement.
She has reported this back to the bank, they are now investigating, also reported to the police but there are saying it's not a criminal case.
Should Nationwide accept reasonability for this, or is it a case for the financial ombudsmen?
Any advice would be gratefully received.

Keith

alanq

If things are as you say then I don't see why this is not a criminal act. Even if not, Nationwide BS should not have allowed husband to view private information let alone move funds. The Ombudsman cannot get involved until you have a final reply from Nationwide or 8 weeks have elapsed, whichever is the sooner.

It doesn't help now but it seems unwise to have opened the new bank account with the same financial institution that has the overdraft. There was always a danger that it could take funds from the savings account to offset the overdraft for which your daughter will be jointly liable. Although the joint account cannot be closed steps should be taken to ensure that further debts are not incurred on the joint account.

PeacefulWaters

As above.

1) it's theft
2) nationwide are liable

EssexExile

Does (x)husband know her log in details perchance? I know with banks we use where we have both joint & separate accounts each of us can only see the joint & our own, not the other's accounts.

SuperAllyB

You say "It now seems" that her (x)husband has moved the money. Do you know that for a fact? Or have Nationwide themselves perhaps offset it against the outstanding overdraft?

grumbler

IIRC, each e-Savings account is linked to some current account, only one.
In her online banking she had two current accounts: joint and sole.
If so, and when opening a e-Savings account she mistakenly linked it to the joint account, i.e. opened it as a joint e-Savings, then it's hardly a surprise that the OH could see it and take money from it. In this case it wasn't NW's fault and "theft" is questionable too.

diamonds

SuperAllyB wrote: »

You say "It now seems" that her (x)husband has moved the money. Do you know that for a fact? Or have Nationwide themselves perhaps offset it against the outstanding overdraft?

I would have hoped NW stopped use of the joint account if not closed it with a due amount given a customer explaining the situation and wrote to both parties about the amount due several times before lifting funds as off setting.


Certainly Santander (Abbey) locked my joint account at my request and opened a new current account at my request, of course I was not stupid, I waited until my ex wages went in to cover the overdraft mostly. I have always been a saver not a spender and that overdraft was not mine and my salary was 25% of theirs.


I asked the teller what amount was due, they gave me it and I authorised a small 50% of the payment due to clear the overdraft to transfer in then they blocked the account until other half paid in the same to £0.00 balance, they went rushing round workmates begging for a pittance in money (under £50) in panic to get the account unlocked and overdraft back and counter sign the paperwork agreeing to my name being actioned off the account.


My name was on the account for ease of banking but the staff knew me between running 2 personal, 1 joint and 2 business accounts and being in branch every other day. They knew who spent, who saved and who budgeted (the proof was there before the joint account)


Not blocking the joint account aswell as allowing access to the new account just seems lunacy, so its not theft, its liability of missing monies and wrong actions to protect the OP daughter on a joint account by not freezing it fall with the bank.


Where you pay 50% of the amount due on a joint overdraft etc where the other party has means to pay the other 50% a good branch manager will remove a name.


Obviously in my situation (Abbey) bank policy was both signatures for a name removal but were able to freeze the account not remove name for my further protection as I would only be liable for 50% of the amount due to the point of notification of requested termination, which had the desired effect anyway.



I learnt the hard way not to share accounts with a non saver, I was still left with major amounts of sole debt in my name because of them, youth eh :rotfl:

BigGreenKwak

Thanks All.
To try and answer some of the above.
Reason she stayed with the NW- the overdraft was never an issue as she was intending to clear it.

Does OH know her log in details-, simple answer is no. NW advised her to re-register for online banking to safe guard against this, which she did do and when she logs on to her new online she only see's her own account and not the joint account. We are guessing OH can not see her new account as no money has been touched.

Did the (X)husband move the money- NW are saying the money was moved via NW online transaction, only someone with the online log on details could of done this, so not gone to overdraft. But they can't say who logged on to move the money, Data Protection.

Each e-Savings account is linked to some current account- This is true, an e-savings account is linked to a Flex account (or other) joint or sole. But if the e-savings account was setup on the new sole account using the new log in details, then how did it become visible to the joint account when that joint account is not visible when she logs on. Also the joint account was frozen the day after they split up so no money could go in or out as of that day. So to what account did the funds get transferred into, we can only guess that he also setup a new sole account for himself.

"theft" is questionable- This is the part I am struggling with. If a bank error occurs and deposits money into your account, you then spend that money. The bank realises the mistake and asks for the money to be returned, if you refuse I'm sure the bank will then say it's theft and start some proceedings against you?

Thanks

diamonds

BigGreenKwak wrote: »

Thanks All.
To try and answer some of the above.
Reason she stayed with the NW- the overdraft was never an issue as she was intending to clear it.

Does OH know her log in details-, simple answer is no. NW advised her to re-register for online banking to safe guard against this, which she did do and when she logs on to her new online she only see's her own account and not the joint account. We are guessing OH can not see her new account as no money has been touched.

Did the (X)husband move the money- NW are saying the money was moved via NW online transaction, only someone with the online log on details could of done this, so not gone to overdraft. But they can't say who logged on to move the money, Data Protection.

Each e-Savings account is linked to some current account- This is true, an e-savings account is linked to a Flex account (or other) joint or sole. But if the e-savings account was setup on the new sole account using the new log in details, then how did it become visible to the joint account when that joint account is not visible when she logs on. Also the joint account was frozen the day after they split up so no money could go in or out as of that day. So to what account did the funds get transferred into, we can only guess that he also setup a new sole account for himself.

"theft" is questionable- This is the part I am struggling with. If a bank error occurs and deposits money into your account, you then spend that money. The bank realises the mistake and asks for the money to be returned, if you refuse I'm sure the bank will then say it's theft and start some proceedings against you?

Thanks

Data Protection my bottom, if the transfer was the joint account holder then your daughter is entitled to know, the very joint account holder has waived his DP rights in regards to the joint account when taking payments out of linked accounts (NW gave him access to).

If a member of staff did they only have to acknowledge such not the employee name.

Further to DP, NW have allowed a transfer from a sole name account showing on a suspended joint account login, they not only failed to protect your daughters data they allowed fraud to happen by doing so.


NW have royally screwed up and are admitting nothing for fear of liability and thus refunding. A official complaint should harbour a apology and refund.



I would report NW to police for breach of the DP and theft via fraud against the ex, the fact NW made a error does not give him right to knowingly withhold funds by transferring such he knew were not his, that is theft. The fact he sent it to his sole account from a sole account he is not named on speaks volumes.

Biggles

BigGreenKwak wrote: »

NW are saying the money was moved via NW online transaction, only someone with the online log on details could of done this, so not gone to overdraft. But they can't say who logged on to move the money, Data Protection.

They don't have to, if it had been her they could and would have told her. So it was someone else. Thus they need to find the answer to the question: How did someone else gain access? They also need to assure your daughter that she - and only she - now has access to that account.

She should tell them that, when they have given her those assurances, she will be returning to the police to report it as theft.

colsten

From what I have read here, there is no proof it was the x-husband.

Who else could have your daughter's internet banking login details / access to her Nationwide debit card/PIN and a card reader? The fact that Nationwide say it wasn't fraud could mean they have reason to believe that your daughter's account was accessed by someone who had the correct credentials to log into her account, set up a new payee and send the money.

To set up a new payee on a Nationwide account, you must use the card reader - i.e. whoever made the payment is likely to have been in possession of the debit card and PIN. Either that, or your daughter has previously set up the payee herself. In any case, it would seem that whoever transferred the money from your daughter's account had access to her online banking.